COVID-19 and expatriation in Hungary

klsallee wrote:

cdw057 wrote:

I really do not understand how Covid-19 works, massive in US, Brazil and some other countries, but for whatever reason continental Europe seems to be quite fine.

Countries (and those USA states) on the upswing often have populations, governments and political leaders in denial who are antipathetic about expert views and professionals in general, and specially about the COVID virus specifically. So such creates a top down set of actions that increase the potential for spreading of disease.

Regarding Europe -- All is not good, as Sweden and its lax regulations are now becoming a problem...

And parts of Germany are back in lockdown....

Also, younger people are now becoming the most affected....

COVID is complicated for experts to understand. Politics makes it worse if not impossible to deal with effectively.

That EU online tool is complete rubbish.  Already out of date due to the changes today.   

Anyway, one of the reasons cited in the UK for the difference between Germany and the UK for deaths is because Germany has about 3 times more intensive care beds. 

I am wondering if ongoing work on existing drugs will lead to a very significant reductions in deaths or hospitalisations.

fluffy2560 wrote:

klsallee wrote:

cdw057 wrote:

I really do not understand how Covid-19 works, massive in US, Brazil and some other countries, but for whatever reason continental Europe seems to be quite fine.

Countries (and those USA states) on the upswing often have populations, governments and political leaders in denial who are antipathetic about expert views and professionals in general, and specially about the COVID virus specifically. So such creates a top down set of actions that increase the potential for spreading of disease.

Regarding Europe -- All is not good, as Sweden and its lax regulations are now becoming a problem...

And parts of Germany are back in lockdown....

Also, younger people are now becoming the most affected....

COVID is complicated for experts to understand. Politics makes it worse if not impossible to deal with effectively.

That EU online tool is complete rubbish.  Already out of date due to the changes today.   

Anyway, one of the reasons cited in the UK for the difference between Germany and the UK for deaths is because Germany has about 3 times more intensive care beds. 

I am wondering if ongoing work on existing drugs will lead to a very significant reductions in deaths or hospitalisations.

I rather to deal with the Embassy of each country to get exact facts from them. Things change and 3rd party sites are always slow to catch up.

A few hot spots in Germany and one state is now on total lockdown again after 1200+ people tested positive in a meat processing plant.

SimCityAT wrote:

....

Hungary is open to all EU but not to UK citizens without having applied online for a permit. 
...
This is a not entirely correct as I said, I know lots of people (UK citizens) going to Hungary without any trouble and without asking for permission because they are resident in Austria (Austria is a low-risk country)

That's not what the EU says. I am sure if you get waived through to Hungary Schengen style, they probably wouldn't know about it but if you were pulled over, it makes you wonder how the restrictions are being applied.

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

....

Hungary is open to all EU but not to UK citizens without having applied online for a permit. 
...
This is a not entirely correct as I said, I know lots of people (UK citizens) going to Hungary without any trouble and without asking for permission because they are resident in Austria (Austria is a low-risk country)

That's not what the EU says. I am sure if you get waived through to Hungary Schengen style, they probably wouldn't know about it but if you were pulled over, it makes you wonder how the restrictions are being applied.

There are police at the border and check you through.

SimCityAT wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

SimCityAT wrote:

....

Hungary is open to all EU but not to UK citizens without having applied online for a permit. 
...
This is a not entirely correct as I said, I know lots of people (UK citizens) going to Hungary without any trouble and without asking for permission because they are resident in Austria (Austria is a low-risk country)

That's not what the EU says. I am sure if you get waived through to Hungary Schengen style, they probably wouldn't know about it but if you were pulled over, it makes you wonder how the restrictions are being applied.

There are police at the border and check you through.

Do they look at passports? 

If you are driving a local car, is it just a wave or actual stop?

The only people I know have Austrian cars and yes passports are checked. Austrians are fine but Brits have to show that they are resident in Austria. My understanding is that it will be somewhat gradually relaxed from next month.

SimCityAT wrote:

The only people I know have Austrian cars and yes passports are checked. Austrians are fine but Brits have to show that they are resident in Austria. My understanding is that it will be somewhat gradually relaxed from next month.

Ok, so it's proper passport checks by HU authorities.   That official EU checking thing is wrong then for sure.   I am wondering if UK people crossing from AT still have to get a permit.

We've got Hungarian cars and usually we're just waved at if they were there at all.   

All that AT anti-terrorist and now COVID19 theatre at Hegyeshalom.   I am sure it'd deter all determined evil doers.

Years ago, having a UK car was guaranteed to get you pulled over.   1st Jan 2021, that'll all be back I suppose.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Anyway, one of the reasons cited in the UK for the difference between Germany and the UK for deaths is because Germany has about 3 times more intensive care beds.

Let me correct that for you:

Anyway, one of the reasons cited *by propaganda tools* in the UK *despite statistics on testing and infection regards to relative population size showing otherwise* for the difference between Germany and the UK for deaths is because *UK propaganda spin machines try to make people believe it is because* Germany has about 3 times more intensive care beds.

The UK government, like the US, is still much in COVID denial. And trying to find external excuses and scapegoats for their own self inflicted internal failures. Sad.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Anyway, one of the reasons cited in the UK for the difference between Germany and the UK for deaths is because Germany has about 3 times more intensive care beds.

Let me correct that for you:

Anyway, one of the reasons cited *by propaganda tools* in the UK *despite statistics on testing and infection regards to relative population size showing otherwise* for the difference between Germany and the UK for deaths is because *UK propaganda spin machines try to make people believe it is because* Germany has about 3 times more intensive care beds.

The UK government, like the US, is still much in COVID denial. And trying to find external excuses and scapegoats for their own self inflicted internal failures. Sad.

I think it was in the media that Germany was cited as having 8000 intensive care beds and the UK about 3000 and broadly similar populations.   Probably believable as facts even if the government spins it to their advantage.

Anyways, I don't think it's a case of blind denial (it's not that simple) as more a case of not standing up publicly admitting it.   I am pretty sure they know the same as the Fake News Supremo Teflon Don knows it.  They want to be seen to be managing it and therefore spin accountability for blame as we all spiral the plughole.  All political optics.   UK government took ages to hold press conferences daily and look what happened with DT did it - Fauci and Birx weren't comfortable with any of that.

Further afield, it's multiple levels of sad over there in South America.   It's Denial Central in Brazil whose President who looks like he's become seriously unhinged over his denial of COVID19.    "Just a little flu...." apparently.   Interestingly enough a federal judge there has ordered him to wear a mask in public or risk a fine.  Be  interesting to see if he does that.

Apologies to repeat myself in a way, right now infection rates are still quite limited, I believe however that with autumn and influenza season coming infection rates (together with death rates) can well go up to 25%+. In Hungary the situation seems to be very well as compared with many other countries but I doubt that the EU as a whole can protect it selves effectively in autumn.

Young people seem to be relatively fine (apart from some possible serious effects down the road) and I really do understand them, if you are 20 you do not seriously consider situations when you would be 40 or 50. (I probably would have done the same (ie not taking the topic very seriously)

I am a bit worried on how the situation develops, people feel relaxed (just a mask and that is it (as if a mask rather then gloves protects better). Right now people are right, but in September they would not be and the whole change of mindset will be difficult to deal with for many.

I do not know if we (me and my wife) can stay strong until March next year (now weather is good, many things to do in the garden (until October (I hope the walnut trees will do well (unlike last year)). Winter will be difficult though I think (reading, Netflix, knitting, games on the computer, ..).
Still I believe, restaurants, concerts, gatherings are not very likely to happen.

cdw057 wrote:

Apologies to repeat myself in a way, right now infection rates are still quite limited, I believe however that with autumn and influenza season coming infection rates (together with death rates) can well go up to 25%+. In Hungary the situation seems to be very well as compared with many other countries but I doubt that the EU as a whole can protect it selves effectively in autumn.

.... Winter will be difficult though I think (reading, Netflix, knitting, games on the computer, ..).
Still I believe, restaurants, concerts, gatherings are not very likely to happen.

If you read the lastest news from the USA, they are saying the potential number of infected persons at 20 million.  So that's about  8% of the US population. 

It's a stretch of a comparison but if  8% here, it'd be close to 800K.  The official figures are 4000.

BTW, Netflix is going to be running out of shows unless production restarts.  They'll have to start buying in stuff big time otherwise they'll start to lose their subscribers.  Same for all of them - Amazon, Disney etc.

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you read the lastest news from the USA, they are saying the potential number of infected persons at 20 million.  So that's about  8% of the US population.

Actually it is simply an extrapolation from:

Dr Robert Redfield, director of the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, said: “It’s clear that many individuals in this nation are still susceptible,

“Our best estimate right now is that for every case that was reported, there actually are 10 more infections.”

Thus, this is only a CDC estimate. And the CDC has been wrong before on this fast moving target. So careful putting too much trust in such estimates at this time. We will have to wait to see what is really fact and what is simply an estimate (it may be too high... or maybe too low... we just do not know yet).

And if those rates are true in the USA, they may also be true in the UK (also notorious it COVID denial from its government). So UK sources should be careful pointing fingers.

cdw057 wrote:

Netflix

Plenty of golden oldies worth watching at https://archive.org/details/movies

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

If you read the lastest news from the USA, they are saying the potential number of infected persons at 20 million.  So that's about  8% of the US population.

Actually it is simply an extrapolation from:

Dr Robert Redfield, director of the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, said: “It’s clear that many individuals in this nation are still susceptible,

“Our best estimate right now is that for every case that was reported, there actually are 10 more infections.”

Thus, this is only a CDC estimate. And the CDC has been wrong before. So careful putting too much trust in such estimates at this time. We will have to wait to see what is really fact and what is simply an estimate (it may be too high... or maybe too low... we just do not know yet).

And if those rates are true in the USA, they may also be true in the UK (also notorious it COVID denial from its government). So UK sources should be careful pointing fingers.

Sure could be for the UK, for Hungary or the Republic of San Marino for all it matters.  I did say it was a stretch.  But using comparators is not unusual.  Economics does it all the time.

The virus and it's method of infection are constants. I expect the rate of infection in say Mongolia or the outback of Australia would be much lower in the countryside.  The distances are large and the people thinly spread.

I was workng on the assumption that CDC (and not the individual Redfield) would have some basis to say that unless they had some evidence or a model for it.   The only way to find out for sure is mass testing but as we don't know more only the headline figures. 

I don't think CDC is up to put a spin on it as it'll be subject to analysis  My own thinking is that we could not trust figures for tin pot dictatorship wannabes like err.....Hungary or Belarus.  But we could trust them for say, Canada.

Just this morning II asked Mr Rumsfeld what he thought and he just said "Known unknowns blah-blah etc".

cdw057 wrote:

In Hungary the situation seems to be very well as compared with many other countries

Actually, that is hard to honestly assess since Hungary has one of the lowest test rates per capita in Europe. So maybe infections rates are being under reported here. Maybe giving a false sense of security?

klsallee wrote:

cdw057 wrote:

Netflix

Plenty of golden oldies worth watching at https://archive.org/details/movies

Shame we cannot get this: Talking Pictures TV.  There's real demand.  Apparently it's been getting numbers around 6 million viewers  in the UK since lockdown.   

Some good stuff here as well: BFI Free Films.  Public information films from days gone by are quite good.  Unfortunately it's got that stupid geo-location detection but those with a VPN might be able to manage.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Shame we cannot get this: Talking Pictures TV.

Good point.

But also, as the weather is improving, don't neglect to download OTR (old time radio)  and listen while you work.


Some of may favorites:

Adventures of Phillip Mar ow crime

Let George Do It crime and mystery

Suspense various topics but to keep you in suspense

Box 13 crime and human interest

The Black Museum real historical crimes

LUX radio theater varies, but of real movies in Hollywood often with the original actors.

X Minus One (scifi)

Adventures of Sam Spade crime, but with humor

CBS Radio Workshop (varied content for intellectual thinking)

And so many more.....

Literally, many months or years of 8 hours a day in your ear bud listening.

Change in UK citizens' entry requirements. 

As usual half-baked info from HMG...uses the term residence permit but doesn't say anything about registration/address cards.

Entry rules in response to coronavirus (COVID-19) - Entry to Hungary

Hungary has restricted entry to foreign nationals. Entry rules may change at short notice. You can find the latest announcements on the Hungarian government website (in English).

UK Nationals who possess a valid residence permit (of longer than 90 days) are allowed to enter Hungary. On entering you will have to undergo a medical examination for COVID-19 and will need to self-isolate for 14 days.

You can be exempted from the requirement to self-isolate if you have two negative test results, for SARS-CoV-2, from tests taken within five days of your entry date. The results must be proven in an official document presented in either Hungarian or in English.

Other UK nationals who wish to enter Hungary must submit an application for exemption on the official website of the Hungarian Police by completing an electronic form here. The form is currently only available in Hungarian and must be completed in Hungarian. The Hungarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade recommend that applications are submitted several days in advance of planned travel, clearly stating the justification for the exemption application. The form sets out in more details about the type of exceptional circumstances in which the authorities may allow entry.

UK nationals who are family members of EEA citizens do not need to pre-register and can enter Hungary without restrictions. You must prove your relationship to these family members in an official document.

All foreign nationals transiting through Hungary must undergo a medical examination at the border and show no symptoms of COVID-19. You must be able to prove what your destination is, the reason you are travelling and that you are able to transit to your final destination. Throughout the transit you can only use specified routes, dedicated petrol and rest stations and specific border crossing points.

Testing / screening on arrival
Anyone entering Hungary following this application route will undergo a medical check.

If you show no symptoms of COVID-19 on arrival, you still need to follow a 14-day quarantine rule. If you show signs of COVID-19, entry will be rejected.

My sister had eye surgery a couple days ago.
She mentioned she needed a C19 test before surgery. Never mentioned it again so it sounds like she is clear.
Surgery was good, she is happy with it.
We have been going a few times a week on the train to different lakes.
On the trains not many people are wearing masks.
Even the conductor has theirs hanging under their chin.
On the subway yesterday a few people were mask free. I hate those things and only put my scarf on when and if everyone else is doing so.
Not on the train, not on the street, didn't wear one on the street even when we went out during lockdown, would rather just avoid people then choke myself out with a mask.
I am now not clear if we must wear a mask on public transportation or not?
I am a rule follower for the most part but also not a mindless sheep.
At the lakes no one is wearing a mask and I'm glad of it.
People are not social distancing in the shops either lately.
Makes you wonder if this "thing" is really airborne then can it pick and chose when it is active?
I personally have my doubts about this being a real illness or a sick experiment on society but my husband is not taking and chances.
Tells me if I get ill he is not letting me back inside the home!
So the question is, to mask or not to mask?
So glad I am not in Cali right now, looks like they are hard hit with rules after rules.
My friend in Hilo is teaching yoga again but outside on the beach, inside they must wear masks at the gyms.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

My sister had eye surgery a couple days ago.
She mentioned she needed a C19 test before surgery. Never mentioned it again so it sounds like she is clear.
Surgery was good, she is happy with it.
We have been going a few times a week on the train to different lakes.
On the trains not many people are wearing masks.
Even the conductor has theirs hanging under their chin.
On the subway yesterday a few people were mask free. I hate those things and only put my scarf on when and if everyone else is doing so.
Not on the train, not on the street, didn't wear one on the street even when we went out during lockdown, would rather just avoid people then choke myself out with a mask.
I am now not clear if we must wear a mask on public transportation or not?
I am a rule follower for the most part but also not a mindless sheep.
At the lakes no one is wearing a mask and I'm glad of it.
People are not social distancing in the shops either lately.
Makes you wonder if this "thing" is really airborne then can it pick and chose when it is active?
I personally have my doubts about this being a real illness or a sick experiment on society but my husband is not taking and chances.
Tells me if I get ill he is not letting me back inside the home!
So the question is, to mask or not to mask?
So glad I am not in Cali right now, looks like they are hard hit with rules after rules.
My friend in Hilo is teaching yoga again but outside on the beach, inside they must wear masks at the gyms.

Hope your sis is doing OK post-eye surgery.

I think the mask wearing is hit and miss. 

Walking around here with the dog, we never see anyone with a mask. 

We see everyone on passing buses - masks, car repair place here - no masks,  Thai takeaway/fastfood in the city -  no masks.   We wear them but we forget,

I'm getting more concerned how loopy people are becoming.

It's getting ridiculous conspiracy theories and fake news.  Best to stop looking at any of that. I think it's driving people mad.   Most people are rational but this is like hysteria.   I don't see C19's origins has anything to do with Trump's meglomania, WHO, NYC pizza restaurant paedophilia, Joe Biden's campaign, 5G, condensation trails from aircraft, vaccine based sterilisation,  Bill Gates, Soros "plans", refugees/immigrants, communism/universal healthcare or whatever.   It's becoming absolutely ridiculous.    People should do something more useful like gardening or DIY.

I heard a woman on UK radio saying all that stuff had driven her partner mad and even changed his personality - and he was Hungarian.  She even said it was threatening her relationship.  She said she was getting sucked into it and now she'd realised her own mental health and existence was under threat.  Her advice was just stop reading about it and follow the rational public health advice of the authorities and don't read anything more.  Her problem was that she didn't know how to de-radicalise her other half.  Almost like de-programming.

There's a lot of it about. We've got an ongoing problem with a relative who was in some weird relationship.   We think she was suffering from a form of Stockholm syndrome.  Her "captor" died and has now left her alone and she seems to be grieving for what we think was her "tormentor".   So this means she has to be de-programmed as well. 

Weird world.

Update on entry requirements for UK citizens from the phone helpline:

Annoyed rant version:  Contrary to the UK Embassy, according to the helpline here in HU, nothing you have by way of paperwork will justify entry into Hungary.  If however the UK national was accompanied by a HU person then you would be allowed in.  So obviously being in the  close aura of a HU person stops UK people contracting COVID19.  If you fill in the online police form, you need a LOT of information to justify your presence.  Basically everything you've ever obtained from the authorities.

Calmer version:  Ask someone else another time who might have a practical clue about the definitive rules.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

So the question is, to mask or not to mask?

Rule (and current HU law) is to always wear a mask in an enclosure. That includes such, but not limited to, stores, buildings, buses, trains, etc. Also to wear a mask when you can not get 2 meters apart from others in a fixed setting (i.e. walking by someone is different (not required) than sitting down for extended periods).

Not wearing a mask is like driving drunk. Or speeding on the road. Or running stop lights. Some people do it, but they are endangering themselves and others. Often such people do not consider their behavior endangers others... Almost all drunk drivers who killed someone were certain they could handle their alcohol. Think about that.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

So obviously being in the  close aura of a HU version stops UK people contracting COVID19. .

Political convenience. Not epidemiology (i.e. science or fact based). Nothing new.

If anything, COVID has exposed each national government in how much they use objective fact based science, versus magical thinking. 

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

So obviously being in the  close aura of a HU person stops UK people contracting COVID19. .

Political convenience. Not epidemiology (i.e. science or fact based). Nothing new.

If anything, COVID has exposed each national government in how much they use objective fact based science, versus magical thinking. 

Totally.   

Mrs Fluffy asked the person on the helpline how being with a closely related HU person mitigated the risks the UK national was a risk.  The phone agent had no answer to that.   I guess politically unacceptable separating families.

And coming your way soon (if you're British),  Fantasy Frontiers, Corona Capers mixed with Brexit Blight!

Took the bus in the city yesterday( made a run to meet and buy some CBD oil from a local HU grower) noticed a "certain ethnic group not wearing masks at all.
Oh well , maybe they have an inside tip?
Has anyone heard about the horror tale of the low income housing units in Melbourne OZ? They are  or were in a Hard Lockdown, not even allowed to leave their flats. Police on every floor of the 9 unit housing buildings. They can opt. to get a C-19 test. no one is fo4rcing them to do so but what on earth does that really mean? It seems to me that it is a great excuse to lock them down more then the 5 days for testing and make it into a 14 day or longer in house lock down.
Sort of very creepy, seems to me they are picking on the poor.
No surprise, wouldn't be the first time.
Read today that HU has 3 levels of entry. Red, Green and Yellow.
Didn't really remember all the countries and colors ( at least we didn't get an orange alert) all I remember is the USA and Japan or yellow, meaning a 2 week shut -in situation at best.
2020, one of the worst years in Human history, at least my history.

Does anyone have a link to the official Hungarian text of the new rules? It's unclear from the English news reports whether the new restrictions are based on citizenship/residence in the U.S., say, or on what country you are actually arriving from.

zif wrote:

Does anyone have a link to the official Hungarian text of the new rules? It's unclear from the English news reports whether the new restrictions are based on citizenship/residence in the U.S., say, or on what country you are actually arriving from.

Using American and Yankee self sufficiency and independence that should be easy (assuming Hungary has published the latest rules.... ).....

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=official+hungaria … d&pp=1

Do note: as a US Citizen, you should not be amazed that one of the links you get from this rather basic search is the US Embassy in Hungary, which also provides links to official Hungarian sources.... Your tax dollars at work. Use them....

That's not a helpful reply at all. Indeed, it's insulting and has no place here.

This is a new rule, just announced. The embassy does not update constantly, and even when it does, it's not always correct.

If you have a link to the new rule in Hungarian, that'd be great.

Otherwise, don't engage in time-wasting nonsense.

zif wrote:

That's not a helpful reply at all. Indeed, it's insulting and has no place here.

This is a new rule, just announced. The embassy does not update constantly, and even when it does, it's not always correct.

If you have a link to the new rule in Hungarian, that'd be great.

Otherwise, don't engage in time-wasting nonsense.

Interesting. As you are actually wasting my time.

I do ask you to actually follow the links I provided. Because if you actually did.... The US Embassy (which should be in the top 5 results) in Hungary has a link to the Official Hungarian Government web site on this issue. Since you seemed somewhat impaired to find it on your own, and despite my very specific instructions how to find it (only to prove my point how easy it is to find, not to be your lackey), I will give you the official US Embassy web site below (which was the first Google link for me on the search I suggested -- may vary where you are, but should be in the top 5 results), which itself has a link to the official Hungarian Government web site which "should" be the most up to date data source (and which was a link to I already stated in my last post, which you seemed to have missed). All which you should have been able to find on your own, if you tried... even a little bit by following my above comment..... If the official Hungarian web site is up to date or not, is not my problem. Complain to the Hungarian Government about that, not to me.... And not further waste my time.

https://hu.usembassy.gov/covid-19-relat … n-hungary/

zif wrote:

That's not a helpful reply at all. Indeed, it's insulting and has no place here.

This is a new rule, just announced. The embassy does not update constantly, and even when it does, it's not always correct.

If you have a link to the new rule in Hungarian, that'd be great.

Otherwise, don't engage in time-wasting nonsense.

The situation - as usual - is verging on baffling.  They change the advice every Wednesday apparently.  And in the usual confusion, it's all wasting our time too.  It's useless announcing some policy where the rules are not properly explained. No-one can keep up and no-one can make any plans.

You might want to look here but be aware it's a HU government/OV blah-blah propaganda site.  Note the free COVID19 testing until 1st August. 

There's a peculiar aspect of "Yellow" in that foreigners need to be tested twice on arrival/14-day quarantine but HU citizens are tested only once.  Clearly HU citizens resident abroad are more immune.  My kids as half-blood HUs must only need 1.5 COVID19 tests....d'oh.  Well,, whatever.

The place which might be more objective is the EU Reopen site (not updated at the time of posting here but might get update tomorrow - Monday 13th July 2020).

p.s. Presumably the registration requirement at the police is no longer in force?  Who knows?!

fluffy2560 wrote:

The situation - as usual - is verging on baffling.  They change the advice every Wednesday apparently.  And in the usual confusion, it's all wasting our time too.  It's useless announcing some policy where the rules are not properly explained. No-one can keep up and no-one can make any plans.

You might want to look here but be aware it's a HU government/OV blah-blah propaganda site.  Note the free COVID19 testing until 1st August.  There's a peculiar aspect of "Yellow" in that foreigners need to be tested twice on arrival/14-day quarantine but HU citizens are not.  Clearly HU citizens resident abroad are more immune.

The place which might be more objective is the EU Reopen site (not updated at the time of posting here but might get update tomorrow - Monday 13th July 2020).

All sites listed are basically all baffling.

The basic reality here, nothing is really clear, till it is officially posts at the HU official web site, and even then it is too vague to understand fully. Expecting complete clarity on some issues may not happen quickly. Anyone expecting absolute clarity does not understand local on the ground reality.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

The situation - as usual - is verging on baffling.  They change the advice every Wednesday apparently.  And in the usual confusion, it's all wasting our time too.  It's useless announcing some policy where the rules are not properly explained. No-one can keep up and no-one can make any plans.

You might want to look here but be aware it's a HU government/OV blah-blah propaganda site.  Note the free COVID19 testing until 1st August.  There's a peculiar aspect of "Yellow" in that foreigners need to be tested twice on arrival/14-day quarantine but HU citizens are not.  Clearly HU citizens resident abroad are more immune.

The place which might be more objective is the EU Reopen site (not updated at the time of posting here but might get update tomorrow - Monday 13th July 2020).

All sites listed are basically all baffling.

The basic reality here, nothing is really clear, till it is officially posts at the HU official web site, and even then it is too vague to understand fully. Expecting complete clarity on some issues may not happen quickly. Anyone expecting absolute clarity does not understand local on the ground reality.

Yes, but where is the official HU web site?   As far as I know hungarytoday.hu is THE official site of HU. 

It'll take perhaps 3-4 days for these rules to move into common knowledge but as you said, phoning the MFAT hotline is going to get you a big fat zero/zilch/nada/nichts/rien. 

As I said in other postings, Mrs Fluffy got some weird advice and we were gathering info to make an application for a permit for me to go to the UK and then come back say 5 days later but now it's changed again.  As of now, no idea.

I should change my handle to Baffled of Budapest

fluffy2560 wrote:

Yes, but where is the official HU web site?

Scroll up.

I suspect you missed my prior post with link.

The official web sites are listed at the US Embassy web site (there is even a HU Government Facebook page).

fluffy2560 wrote:

As far as I know hungarytoday.hu is THE official site of HU.

hungarytoday.hu is a news and blog site. At the "about us" link, this should have been a clue:

"The views expressed by the authors of the Blog posts are theirs alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Hungary Today."

Hungarian law if not official until it is published by the government in the government registry. It does not matter what an English language news portal may say. The link from the US Embassy goes to a .gov.hu web site. The official one (only in Hungarian of course).

Why don't I just list the sites here? Simple: I have one hour to edit this post. And maybe in a few months those links will change. The US Embassy will update posts as needed, after I can not here do so.

That, and I think people need to learn how to search information for themselves more. Basically : Teach a man to fish, and he can feed himself for his entire life. Lazy people need not apply....

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Yes, but where is the official HU web site?

Scroll up.

I suspect you missed my prior post with link.

The official web sites are listed at the US Embassy web site (there is even a HU Government Facebook page).

fluffy2560 wrote:

As far as I know hungarytoday.hu is THE official site of HU.

hungarytoday.hu is a news and blog site. At the "about us" link, this should have been a clue:

"The views expressed by the authors of the Blog posts are theirs alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Hungary Today."

Hungarian law if not official until it is published by the government in the government registry. It does not matter what an English language news portal may say. The link from the US Embassy goes to a .gov.hu web site. The official one (only in Hungarian of course).

Try this:

Click on Korona Virus HU Govt web site EN link it takes you to About Hungary, i.e. government web site.  As far as I can see it's the official press briefing web site. If it's wasn't, why is it listed at the US Embassy/government web site as official?

What you're talking about in the registry is what would normally be called "gazetting" which is usually the official bulletin on government legislation or regulation, i.e. gazette.  Here's the official HU one.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Try this:

Click on Korona Virus HU Govt web site EN link it takes you to About Hungary, i.e. government web site.

Well.... The link takes English speakers to a web site... but to call that "official" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe Hungarytoday.hu is simply owned by a government approved oligarch who is there to give government propaganda to English Speakers. Does not mean if it "official" in the terms I would use (i.e. a government owned and controlled web site).

And https://koronavirus.gov.hu/ is all about COVID in Hungary specifically. While hungarytoday.hu is all about all issues. So these are different sites in topic and scope.

A quick "whois" search of this web site shows the sites hides the domain owner. If it was the Hungarian government, why are they hiding their ownership? Don't simply assume links from a government web site takes you too government sites. The web it not that simple.....

klsallee wrote:

Well.... The link takes English speakers to a web site... but to call that "official" is a bit of a stretch. Maybe Hungarytoday.hu is simply owned by a government approved oligarch who is there to give government propaganda to English Speakers. Does not mean if it "official" in the terms I would use (i.e. a government owned and controlled web site).

I've been through this before.

Click here Impressum and you can see it's published by the Cabinet Office of the PM (of Hungary).   Looks pretty official to me!   It's their media outlet/press briefing vehicle.

Cabinet Office is the equivalent of an administrative ministry of government.  Blogs are another thing.  But Cabinet Office postings are from the horse or the horse's mouth.

The point is, the devil lies in the details, and the news stories and summaries -- in English or Hungarian -- don't provide the details. Maybe the details don't exist because the formal rules haven't been drafted yet, I don't know.

The stories are particularly confusing because they speak of non-citizen arrivals from green and yellow countries being subject to a testing/quarantine regime. The U.S. is described as a "yellow" country. Does this mean that from Wednesday Americans will be able to enter Hungary if they undergo the regime? Or will Americans continue to be banned unless they hold Hungarian residency?

This is quite an important question, and all the noise about "Do your own research, fella" misses the point that this forum exists precisely for mutual assistance. If you don't want to help, then don't. But don't knock others for asking. That's why we're here. And why we try to repay the help by helping others on other questions when we can. Plenty of times I've answered naturalization questions on that long thread that had already been answered long ago on that same thread. And I answered them without feeling any need to give lectures on how to fish.

Here are the official rules in Hungarian from the Government Gazette. My Hungarian reading ability remains quite limited, but Google Translate is helpful, and a quick reading does suggest that from Wednesday, Americans can enter Hungary without quarantine provided they've tested negative twice for the virus within the past five days, at least 48 hours apart.

Nonetheless, it would be more than useful if someone fluent in Hungarian could confirm this is the case. It goes without saying that re-opening of Hungary to American tourists and others -- if it is indeed re-opening -- would be a very significant step back to normality.

https://magyarkozlony.hu/dokumentumok/3 … egtekintes

zif wrote:

Here are the official rules in Hungarian from the Government Gazette. My Hungarian reading ability remains quite limited, but Google Translate is helpful, and a quick reading does suggest that from Wednesday, Americans can enter Hungary without quarantine provided they've tested negative twice for the virus within the past five days, at least 48 hours apart.

Nonetheless, it would be more than useful if someone fluent in Hungarian could confirm this is the case. It goes without saying that re-opening of Hungary to American tourists and others -- if it is indeed re-opening -- would be a very significant step back to normality.

https://magyarkozlony.hu/dokumentumok/3 … egtekintes

I don't think it's quite like that but close.  My understanding is:

Yellow countries will be checked on arrival for symptoms.   If no symptoms - 14 days self-isolation regardless.

If symptoms then  COVID19 test No 1 at airport (free until 1st August).  Presumably symptom checks are simple like temperature and questionnaire.

If Test No 1 shows no COVID19 then if HU citizen,  they can stop self-isolation otherwise for foreigners, COVID19 test No 2, 48h later and if no COVID19, person can stop self-isolation.

Of course, it doesn't make any sense not to test the HU citizen twice considering how many HU citizens live elsewhere in Europe and further afield.

Mrs Fluffy will phone the help line soon and find out but I doubt there will be a sensible conversation.

Thank you for looking at that.

Yet take another look at Section 5, the relevant section dealing with foreigners coming from "Yellow" countries.

Yes, I read 5(1) as saying that foreigners coming from "Yellow" countries will be examined at the border.

And yes, I read 5(3) as saying that if they don't have any symptoms they'll be subject to a 14-day quarantine.

But I read 5(5) as saying that nonetheless they won't be subject to quarantine if they've had two negative tests at least 48 hours apart starting no more than five days before arriving Hungary ("a Magyarországra történő belépést megelőző 5 napon belül").

I also read all this as hinging not on your nationality but on whether you arrive in Hungary from the territory of a "yellow" country: "Külföldről érkező nem magyar állampolgár személyforgalomban sárga jelzéssel besorolt ország területéről . . ." But this is a very important point, so it needs to be confirmed. (Don't know how transits will be treated.)