COVID-19 and expatriation in Hungary

Vicces1 wrote:

.....

fluffy2560 wrote:

HU and PL vetoing the EU budget will backfire.  People won't forget that quickly. These types of people need to get themselves a life and worry about more important things than the LGBTQI community.   When they legalised gay marriage in the UK, it did nothing at all.  The sun still came up and the world was still turning.  Now no-one really cares or pays attention.  Just a political convenience to have an enemy to fight. HU and PL can always leave the EU if they don't like it.  People here like the EU but if it's a choice?  O1G or EU?

I can't help but think it will backfire, but am wondering how. EU admins have tolerated O1G and Poland for too long and now they've created monsters. I must say that if I were a French or Dutch or German (name contributing country of choice), I would be like, why do I ask my citizens to pay for your corruption? Nope, you have no right to our money and you are welcome to leave if you can't agree on a rule of law. There are plenty of other countries who are willing and able to meet these basic principles. Previously, the EU funds were about 4-5% of HU GDP and allowed for considerable knock-on effects and investment. Now with the virus hitting economies, you really can't argue that following some simple rules of human decency is too much to ask. It's not like it would completely turn off the money taps for O1G's corruption.  Again, if I were a contributing country, I would be happy not to have to pay into this budget for a time, stonewalling until Poland and Hungary's financials start crashing. The only problem being that I live here and need stable finances. I do think that recent movements have made my moving out of Hungary a serious possiblity in future years, as much out of necessity as the changing political environment..

There's a lot in that big post so I will cherry pick.   

My own thinking is that O1G wants to be out of the EU so he can go full-on Putin but without the resources he'll need a sponsor.  And that's going to be Putin.  His interest is holding power regardless of who is sponsoring him - power is more important than anything minor like the population.   And holding power keeps him out of jail.

What I don't understand is why not take the EU money and then ignore any controls downstream?  It's not like it's anything different to what went before.   

Just another handy pot of money to raid for corrupt politicians and their cronies and then prepare to sell out O1G and leave him holding the baby.  They could just start filtering it out and then retire to Monaco or Dubai and retire to their parked up yachts. 

BTW, I misspoke, I meant Sean Connery wanted to break up the UK.   So like him as Bond but his undermining of the country makes him almost like Blofeld or at least Blofeld's cat controlled by some higher power.

Trivial bonus question, what's Blofeld's cat's name? BTW, it's not Fluffy.

I do not often disagree with Fluffy, but my expectation is that Hungary (and its government whoever is in power) will remain in the EU, even going beyond that within 2 or 3 years making an announcement to join the EURO.
1. Hungary is surrounded by EU countries
2. Far too much money still to flow in (apart from this Covid package which I personally do not like)
3. Loads of Hungarians do cross-border work.
4. Very expensive to leave as well, although I am sure Putin would love to sponsor.
5. Population is very much in favor of being part of EU (at this stage).

cdw057 wrote:

I do not often disagree with Fluffy, but my expectation is that Hungary (and its government whoever is in power) will remain in the EU, even going beyond that within 2 or 3 years making an announcement to join the EURO.
1. Hungary is surrounded by EU countries
2. Far too much money still to flow in (apart from this Covid package which I personally do not like)
3. Loads of Hungarians do cross-border work.
4. Very expensive to leave as well, although I am sure Putin would love to sponsor.
5. Population is very much in favor of being part of EU (at this stage).

Strangely enough I mostly agree with you. 

The problem here is O1G himself.  His MO (Modus Operandi) is always to have someone or something as the enemy in order to get the population angry against.  And they (his supporters) fall for it each time.  It's very similar to Trump who creates division.   However, O1G is running out of people or things to cast in the role of the devil.   He's reached the EU now he's dug a big hole for himself with immigrants, Soros, justices, theatre schools, universities and so on. So where can he go to keep going? 

People are leaving for other opportunities and the population is reducing.   The birth rate is way below the required number to keep the population stable.  That's even with incentives.  O1G has of course made it worse for the country.  Making more babies locally is laudable but it's not really working.   On the other hand look at Merkel - she took 1M people in one lump and increased her population and the potential for more population in one go.  Might have looked foolish but long term it's probably a master stroke.

O1G couldn't do that as he'd already shot himself in the foot saying all immigrants are evil.   It might work for Putin but Putin has huge resources.  Little 'ol Hungary has nothing except its people and they are going - fast....

It's going to be quite interesting how the COVID19 virus can be blamed for Hungary's situation.  It's like Trump being caught out.  O1G cannot argue with the virus on policy or ideological grounds. It's just coming anyway like a runaway train. And he's in the driving seat.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The problem here is O1G himself. His MO (Modus Operandi) is always to have someone or something as the enemy in order to get the population angry against.  And they (his supporters) fall for it each time.  It's very similar to Trump who creates division. However, O1G is running out of people or things to cast in the role of the devil.   He's reached the EU now he's dug a big hole for himself with immigrants, Soros, justices, theatre schools, universities and so on. So where can he go to keep going? 

People are leaving for other opportunities and the population is reducing.   The birth rate is way below the required number to keep the population stable.  That's even with incentives.  O1G has of course made it worse for the country.  Making more babies locally is laudable but it's not really working.

O1G couldn't do that as he'd already shot himself in the foot saying all immigrants are evil.   It might work for Putin but Putin has huge resources.  Little 'ol Hungary has nothing except its people and they are going - fast....

It's going to be quite interesting how the COVID19 virus can be blamed for Hungary's situation.  It's like Trump being caught out. O1G cannot argue with the virus on policy or ideological grounds. It's just coming anyway like a runaway train. And he's in the driving seat.

As always, some great food for thought...
O1G's grasp on power has been strengthened by his recent manoeuvres. He targets an area, then replaces the institution with his own loyalists. If you disagree, your job is in jeopardy -- not unlike the Soviet era occupation tactics.  He has replaced the media with his own stooges, he made the state control scientific research and funding, he has decapitated theatrical protest, and gone after universities. He has replaced the educational curriculum with propaganda, and he is hamstringing every attempt by Xmas here in Bp to make it look like the building of massively expensive stadiums and disregarding infrastructure was a stroke of genius on his part.  As long as he continues to hobble the opposition, and as long as the opposition falls for it, failing to unite or come up with substantial proposals that can challenge O1G's monotone rants against oppression (from history, from Brussels, from Soros, etc), then he will continue to keep a grip on the numbed masses.

I read an article (can't find it now but will link if it pops up in my history) that showed population projections throughout the EU. No surprise, but Italy, currently a country of approx 60 million, will more than halve by 2100. Hungary, rounding up to a population of 10 million, will be slightly under 5 million. So you are spot on -- the talented "Hungarians who can" are leaving for bluer waters. Leaving more uneducated to stay here in Hungary -- O1G's voter base. The number 1 reason for population decline is intransigence to immigration -- and before anyone yells "But we don't want Muslims here!", this was referring to all immigration, not just from the ME. When a Polish worker moves to the UK, that works too for these numbers of immigration. My friend sent me a link (in Hungarian) that many professionals and doctors were returning to Hungary because of salary increases recently passed by O1G. However, even with the raises, salaries remain relatively half of what doctors can earn in Austria or Germany. There is no mass return of professionals because of "the violence" in other countries (as stated by the article). So perhaps O1G is aware of this exodus problem and putting out some propaganda to the contrary.

BTW - I don't think Blofeld's cat was ever given a name...

Vicces1 wrote:

....

BTW - I don't think Blofeld's cat was ever given a name...

Rumour has it was called Tiddes.  Parallelling that, Dr Evil's cat was called Mr Bigglesworth.

Some things are just worth knowing.

Indeed population decrease is one hell of an issue, paying pensions will become more and more difficult and with people getting older and older even worse. This is a problem throughout Europe and the Western World as a whole (also an issue for Russia, China and Japan).
Getting people in is more or less the only solution, paying taxes and contributing to health care and pension system.
So called refugees however tend to be young man without means or education, true refugees (including families) should come, not the fortune seekers. eg India/Philippines have a huge pool of educated and skilled people they should come on a 5 year visa or so and work, if no criminal record after that time, they should get a residency permit.
Hungary is fast going to western standards and people might be tempted to apply here. Now Germany, Netherlands, Luxembourg are of course much more attractive (both for regular jobs, but also for profitable crime).

Of course corruption is also a crime, but "blackmail" in society is also not good, when I hear that a starting nurse in Germany now gets EUR 3500 as starting salary gross, in a way I am sad, other groups post Corona will ask the same (WHO WILL PAY?).
Also all these subsidies (Germany, Netherlands) hardly controlled are I think mist-used by many. (again who will pay (pensioners without additional income (inflation and/or taxes)
I repeat myself better to have a real crisis and start over rather then dealing with the financial consequences for 20 years.

Personally I think Orban is not doing too bad, although measures can be stronger and could have been implemented earlier.
Many more comments could be made and I probably will.

Last, I probably would be lucky to live for another 20 years, disasters in the world will happen (ecological, financial, ...) I honestly am not going to worry on the situation in 2100. (I try to remain green a bit though).

Vicces1 wrote:

....I read an article (can't find it now but will link if it pops up in my history) that showed population projections throughout the EU. No surprise, but Italy, currently a country of approx 60 million, will more than halve by 2100. Hungary, rounding up to a population of 10 million, will be slightly under 5 million. So you are spot on -- the talented "Hungarians who can" are leaving for bluer waters. Leaving more uneducated to stay here in Hungary -- O1G's voter base. The number 1 reason for population decline is intransigence to immigration -- and before anyone yells "But we don't want Muslims here!", this was referring to all immigration, not just from the ME. When a Polish worker moves to the UK, that works too for these numbers of immigration. My friend sent me a link (in Hungarian) that many professionals and doctors were returning to Hungary because of salary increases recently passed by O1G. However, even with the raises, salaries remain relatively half of what doctors can earn in Austria or Germany. There is no mass return of professionals because of "the violence" in other countries (as stated by the article). So perhaps O1G is aware of this exodus problem and putting out some propaganda to the contrary....

One only has to look at Bulgaria.  The brain drain has been going on a long time there and the decline is even more precipitous.   That's what Hungary would look like soon enough.

No-one is going to come back here when they've settled in another country with better conditions.   

The UK hasn't helped itself with Brexit anti-immigration nonsense but just as easy for HU professionals to go to say, Ireland, Germany or Netherlands or wherever.  It's close by for Hungarians - they can drive back home easily enough.

If I was a doctor, I wouldn't come back here, I'd be thinking of further away career choices like Canada or Australia or New Zealand.  One has to think of one's kids and quality of life.

BTW, there's a brain drain from the UK as well.  One of my cousins is married to a surgeon and they've left the UK for Middle East.  The surgeon mentioned a very diverse set of nationalities out East - specifically the Hungarian medics were there and they all work alongside each other every day.

Hot HU news:

There are reports that curfew will be extended to 08 Feb 2021.

Extended is not too bad as things could be much worse. I actually expect things to get much worse in terms of rules and constraints (especially with regards to doctors, dentists (I have very bad teeth), extraction as only option during curfew could very well be a possibility  (no root canal etc).

We go out walking from time to time but I can very well imagine that this will be prohibited as well, I can not imagine that tobacco shops will be closed though (a lot of financial (government) interest).
Lining up like in the Czech Republic in front of supermarkets is likely I think in the coming weeks.

Honestly we are prepared, yes we do miss fruits and vegs, but for the rest I think we can "survive" until early spring (planning as I do however I would like to have provisions until May next year).

cdw057 wrote:

...

Personally I think Orban is not doing too bad, although measures can be stronger and could have been implemented earlier.
Many more comments could be made and I probably will.

Last, I probably would be lucky to live for another 20 years, disasters in the world will happen (ecological, financial, ...) I honestly am not going to worry on the situation in 2100. (I try to remain green a bit though).

Not worry about 2100? No kids?  I am concerned up to about 2040-50, thereafter, meh.

I think O1G's handling of the virus is not any better than anyone else's.  Maybe they all should look to South Korea or Taiwan.   

Unfortunately O1G has been busy screwing with democracy and filling people's heads with misinformation.  He's not made it a comfy place with younger more liberal persons.  They are the people who need to stay but they are all planning to leave or have already gone.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Hot HU news:

There are reports that curfew will be extended to 08 Feb 2021.

Just one word, "Wonderbar"! Not!

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Hot HU news:

There are reports that curfew will be extended to 08 Feb 2021.

Just one word, "Wonderbar"! Not!

It's just all rubbish.  Not going to make any difference at all.

We're doomed. But don't panic. Keep calm and carry on.

We've just come back from OBI - everyone had masks on but in the car park, hardly anyone.  Under the rules, we're all supposed to be masked up everywhere.

fluffy2560 wrote:

cdw057 wrote:

...

Personally I think Orban is not doing too bad, although measures can be stronger and could have been implemented earlier.
Many more comments could be made and I probably will.

Last, I probably would be lucky to live for another 20 years, disasters in the world will happen (ecological, financial, ...) I honestly am not going to worry on the situation in 2100. (I try to remain green a bit though).

Not worry about 2100? No kids?  I am concerned up to about 2040-50, thereafter, meh.

I think O1G's handling of the virus is not any better than anyone's else.  Maybe they all should look to South Korea or Taiwan.   

Unfortunately O1G has been busy screwing with democracy and filling people's heads with misinformation.  He's not made it a comfy place with younger more liberal persons.  They are the people who need to stay but they are all planning to leave or have already gone.

I honestly only get my HU info and news via my husband.
He has learned over time to filter any bad news he gives me or I as an empath get upset.
He says odd things like we had our time, we have no grandcchildren and our son is a let down.
WTH?
I am not on board with that attitude.
I could just cry for the children( young ones at least) who will have to deal with the BS happening now as they grow up.I honestly wish them the best and hope they do a better job of it then we did. Of course no one did anything wrong really they just went with the program.
I am not shocked by any of this, guess my childhood of hearing doom and gloom as my mother had us study with the JW's has given me a slight and I mean slight advantage.Nothing new here this was expected at some point. Just a bit surprised I see the begining of this mess on earth.I hope I see the end of it to in my lifetime.Hope it ends soon, the confusion and fear over the world.
So upset thinking too much about it.
Not for myself or even my son who hates the world anyways but for those who think and believed in the "system" The party is over with but people are not yet aware of it.
I do not know how this will effect  UK citizens living in Hungary after the Brexit thing is done with.
I've visited Hungary in the old commie days, nothing that happens from now on would be a shock to me.
My husband almost had me visit the eye doc yesterday by myself,He doesn't want to catch anything.
They took our temp as we entered the hospital/clinic this time they hit the throat and not the forehead.
Time to kill the thyroid?
Today we didn't want to move our car, our st. is getting way too many cars parking long term since it is free parking these days.
We walked to Tesco. killed several birds at one, I got my sun, my walk and my husband got dinner, oh yes, I got my 25% off alcohol if you buy 6 bottles... What is up with that, are the alkies running out of money?
I'm wondering about Tesco too. Their produce is so over priced campared to if you went to a local farmers market.
How long will they stock produce if it is a big selling item?
Last Jan. 1 I promised myself I would stop drinking my bit of wine, with 2020 I want a redo in my promise, this year does not count!

Oh yes, the dumb mask thing, I forced my 73 year old hubby to pull that silly thing down so his nose got fresh air as we walked for 90 mins. today. I mean how can anyone walk and wear one of those things without bringing on a heart attack? This BS is a crime against all humanity and who ever is responible for it must be put down .
I may be crazy but look up Event 201. Hmmm, something is rotten in Denmark!






e

Here in Bp, I can say that people walking on the street are at about 90% compliance with wearing a mask (I am in the 13th district). In small stores, it is 100%. But in places like West End, it is more like 25% wear a mask correctly, 50% wear a mask incorrectly, and 25% have a mask somewhere near their body in case they are told to put one on.
Mass transit is about 99% compliant, but again, not everyone wears a mask correctly.
There are "mask police" who check to ensure compliance on trams, metro, and buses.

I hope you all take care of yourselves! 

Vicces1 wrote:

Here in Bp, I can say that people walking on the street are at about 90% compliance with wearing a mask (I am in the 13th district). In small stores, it is 100%. But in places like West End, it is more like 25% wear a mask correctly, 50% wear a mask incorrectly, and 25% have a mask somewhere near their body in case they are told to put one on.
Mass transit is about 99% compliant, but again, not everyone wears a mask correctly.
There are "mask police" who check to ensure compliance on trams, metro, and buses.

I hope you all take care of yourselves! 

That's a good summary.   Here's the Mask Report for the burbs.

I'd say it's 25% on masks mainly worn correctly, perhaps 15% on masks incorrectly worn and 60% without masks at all.  That's in the street.  Shops, I'd say 95-100% wearing correctly.   I don't go on the bus so I only see through the windows and it looks like 100%.

All of this mask chatter made me think of the horror story Masque of the Red Death. 

We're all being stalked by the virus and it's lock down opportunists (DT, O1G, etc).

On the other hand, it was a really nice sunny day.  Forecast says negative temperatures towards the weekend with frost possible!  Nem nem nem....!

Oh, we are the victims of "fake news"... That report that the quarantine restrictions will go to February? Fake news. As of now, only until December...
https://www.origo.hu/itthon/20201118-ko … menye.html

I follow the news quite carefully and tend to trust DW, Bloomberg and BBC (and a number of other channels). Situation is bad in my view (might be that we are being scammed  (I think not), but in my view the virus is there (and I do not want to take the risk (almost 60 and bad health). One or two of my friends/acquaintances have been in hospital (and survived (remarkably).

Masks only protect partially though, the Dutch have said from the start it gives a false sense of security.
In my view (if you can) stay at home and wait the bloody thing out. We are alive and most of us (from what I read) do not have a job, we have internet (including Netflix), in most cases a comfortable property with gas/electrity and water (on the latter subject we had measurement last week by EON checking both at the same time (which is good),
Of course things get more expensive (one of my biggest worries). But we are not in hospital (the ones who are will not look at the forum I think though).

My message, please stay healthy, do not complain, enjoy a bit and look for home-deliveries. (By May or June live will be better but you (and me) will have gained an interesting experience.

PS we took the thing serious from the start (as you can see from the posts), we probably missed part of the joy in June/July, but then again doctors in many countries now retro-actively stand up and complain on non-restrictitions during that period.

Again STAY HEALTHY, apologies for the harsh words.

Vicces1 wrote:

Oh, we are the victims of "fake news"... That report that the quarantine restrictions will go to February? Fake news. As of now, only until December...
https://www.origo.hu/itthon/20201118-ko … menye.html

Yes, you got to that correction before me.  Good call.

The ability to regulate is until February but the current restrictions last until December.   

I do think twice or thrice sometimes if I post something if it might be true or not. I certainly do not want to spread fake news or wind anyone up.  I'll leave that sort of thing to Facebook, Instagram etc. 

I should spend more time on corroboration.  Look for two sources or at least select trustworthy sources (Economist, BBC, Euronews and others)

cdw057 wrote:

I follow the news quite carefully and tend to trust DW, Bloomberg and BBC (and a number of other channels). Situation is bad in my view (might be that we are being scammed  (I think not), but in my view the virus is there (and I do not want to take the risk (almost 60 and bad health). One or two of my friends/acquaintances have been in hospital (and survived (remarkably).

Masks only protect partially though, the Dutch have said from the start it gives a false sense of security.
In my view (if you can) stay at home and wait the bloody thing out. We are alive and most of us (from what I read) do not have a job, we have internet (including Netflix), in most cases a comfortable property with gas/electrity and water (on the latter subject we had measurement last week by EON checking both at the same time (which is good),
Of course things get more expensive (one of my biggest worries). But we are not in hospital (the ones who are will not look at the forum I think though).

My message, please stay healthy, do not complain, enjoy a bit and look for home-deliveries. (By May or June live will be better but you (and me) will have gained an interesting experience.

PS we took the thing serious from the start (as you can see from the posts), we probably missed part of the joy in June/July, but then again doctors in many countries now retro-actively stand up and complain on non-restrictitions during that period....

The sentiment is good mostly but there are other factors - for example, elderly relatives, young kids, the dog and just us.   We cannot remain locked up and kids need freedoms and dog needs exercise. 

In my own country complaining is a national sport which will never change.  Complaining is one thing, actively resisting is another.

We've got relatives here and in the UK (like my Dad, well into his 90s) who need some level of checking or even supervision. I'm lucky as I have siblings who can check and he lives in semi-sheltered apartments, A warden checks each day except weekends and there is an emergency alarm signalling system.   I don't know if I will be able to see him again.  Every day is a bonus at his age - could be found suddenly expired anytime really. Luckily his mind is really sharp so he's OK to talk on the phone but he likes to have visitors.   

Here in Hungary, My MIL might be on the edge of not being able to cope - cataracts now so cannot see and possibly with early signs of dementia or Alzheimers (memory loss, imagining things, confusion).   Mrs Fluffy is about the only one  who can get there to check on her without restrictions.

So it's not possible to really go into a bunker.   I'd rather not have had this experience.  It's had some upsides - being able to stay home more with Mrs Fluffy and the Fluffyettes.   

But overall it's getting a bit boring - there's only so much work you can do at home without others. One soon one runs out of DIY, seen all Netflix and even the dog looks bored with the same walks.   

I've still got plenty to do and I have a plan to keep busy.   Surviving this shows how important it is to have a plan.

I try to be a bit political in my posts (and soft (even if not always successful)) . I believe the official channels and try to keep clear of "alternative" channels.

I believe however that in Hungary (and the EU in general) there will be very strict regulations going forward. (I do not need additional channels for that (just common sense)). Measures right now (in Hungary) are too soft. Than again, of course loosing Christmas (sales) is bad but not very bad, Hungary in a way benefited from the summer season, incurring health care cost right now is an acceptable price (empathy is another matter and this is the part where I do not agree (compared to some other countries the empathy topic in Hungary is better than in many other countries)

Just common sense (VERY difficult in this period).

Request, we live in Hungary, please do NOT be too negative (after all we made a choice to live here). (Not all about government but also about people who live here)

Very good post and I do recognize (too well) some of the (sub) topics. Having said that (perhaps I am too accepting for circumstances), I am happy that there is not a third world war, society is still working.

"Normal" health issues like Alzheimer, Cancer, Cataract are more or less neglected in these times, but I think (good) neighbors will still be there (in war times situation is probably different). My MIL and own mother (fathers died) have difficult times (health and contacts alike), good there is the telephone (email is more difficult) for both of us.
Both of them however seem to be in a mindset that if if happens it happens and are quite content to leave this world (admittedly Corona is easier than 2 year cancer or other), I would also accept, however I am afraid that in case of surviving the life will not be pleasant at all.

I personally think in case of death (if Corona) of either my MIL or own mother even going to a funeral will be challenging I will try and probably succeed but also I will be a bit sad (and a bit upset under the skin) that neither of them have adhered to normal Corona practices.

Apologies for the open post.

I enjoy reading everyone comments.
My 2nd cousin retired last year from a long career as a post surgey nurse at Johns Hopkins Hospital( Hmm there are a few brain cells in the family.. I'm not a prime example though...)
She totally believes there is a virus.
My 73 year old sister is one tough old bird.
She works in an elderly care home 2 weekends per month.
She believes it's real to.
She and her co-workers run the front desk answering phones and such and are far away from the residents.
She said they moved to an underground sort of location in the building with plexiglass protection, she wears a face shield and mask too.
I sure couldn't do that, even putting that thing over my nose in shops makes me go dizzy in a short time, headache and grumpy feeling.
I have allergies so the mask drives me insane.
My friend in Hawaii has a son who had C-19. He is a young doctor working in a hospital in Honolulu. He stayed locked at home for weeks and is fine now and back to work.
My husband believes it's real but not panicing about it, just being careful as possible and giving me a hard time someitmes when I drag him places.
We walked yesterday back and forth to Tesco and didn't use the tram or bus, didn't want to move our car so we walked. I loved it but poor guy had to carry a heavy backpack of wine bottles for me.
That's love...
We almost bought a country home 14 years ago here near the Danube that did have a bunker underground...Hmm, that would be interesting to dig in like that.
Last week we went underground in our building to check out where the water shut off value was . Used to know but they moved it, new pipes down there, all tubing...
I know my MIL lived underground during the war for about 2 years, would go to the flat at times but never went on the st. for 2 years. Her mother and uncle wouldn't allow it, pretty young lady with a baby. Too many crazy people out even then .
During 56 my husband's family returned at times underground when shooting was going on in the city.
No thanks, it's horrible down there.
I did mention in jest if we ever had to go down there and a few of our neighbors joined us, some of us were never going to see the light of day again.
I can't imagine spending days on end with some of these people... someone would snap!
Justing trying to keep things light, these are some crazy days for sure.
It is important to eat right and stay healthy right now, I feel for those who aren't getting fresh produce or sunshine... well not many of us are getting much sunshine with this weather.It is important though to get some sun when we can.
Yes in the city most people are wearing masks even if they are pulled under their chin and there is a cig. hanging out of their mouth or they are chatting on a cell phone.
Guess this virus chooses it's tie and place to attack, all good if you need to smoke or catch up on the latest gossip.
Mr Flufy shouldn't worry about his father, he sounds like a trooper and a lot tougher then most of us.
He will see him again and not too far off and I mean in the flesh.

A comfortabel bunker is fine, but it is no war (luckily) and we live comfortable in our village property (animals, garden, good house and more than enough provisions).

Masks also for me are not the biggest pleasure, linked to shopping I went once per quarter or so and then buy massively (but those times have gone (for the heavy items we are set until May (dog food, cat food, sparkling water, wine, whisky , cigarettes, canned food),
Nowadays perhaps once per month, milk, fruits, vegs. Quick in and out serious mask, gloves, ..

Walking outside, still fine although we tend to do this well before 8 AM, apart from home deliveries it would be a bloody miracle if we woud get Covid.

Of course city living has (had) its pluses (which I sometimes miss), right now I think village life is best though.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

.....
We almost bought a country home 14 years ago here near the Danube that did have a bunker underground...Hmm, that would be interesting to dig in like that.
Last week we went underground in our building to check out where the water shut off value was . Used to know but they moved it, new pipes down there, all tubing...
I know my MIL lived underground during the war for about 2 years, would go to the flat at times but never went on the st. for 2 years. Her mother and uncle wouldn't allow it, pretty young lady with a baby. Too many crazy people out even then .
During 56 my husband's family returned at times underground when shooting was going on in the city.
No thanks, it's horrible down there.
I did mention in jest if we ever had to go down there and a few of our neighbours joined us, some of us were never going to see the light of day again.
I can't imagine spending days on end with some of these people... someone would snap!
Just trying to keep things light, these are some crazy days for sure.
...
Yes in the city most people are wearing masks even if they are pulled under their chin and there is a cig. hanging out of their mouth or they are chatting on a cell phone.
Guess this virus chooses it's tie and place to attack, all good if you need to smoke or catch up on the latest gossip.
Mr Fluffy shouldn't worry about his father, he sounds like a trooper and a lot tougher then most of us.
He will see him again and not too far off and I mean in the flesh.

I wouldn't buy a property near the Danube with a cellar.  Could be full of water in a flash if the waters rise.  I see some of the houses down near the Duna are on stilts - no bunkers there.  We should be OK here with global warming  as the rise in sea levels won't be enough to wash our house away.  On the other hand, the rest of the world could suddenly have more seafront properties.  And there will be less land for food production and overcrowding would become the norm.  I can imagine hordes of refugees from the now seaside migrating to higher ground.

I think at mid-90s ages, there's just no telling when you could be taken by the grim reaper.  One of my family was there yesterday with Daddio and he was showing some signs of confusion.  But he's still pretty good so could be just a very senior moment.   I really wanted to get there and just talk about his life and experiences.  It's amazing - he was born when people were still using steam engines and now, almost 100 years later, there are self-driving electric cars.   

To keep on topic,  looks like the vaccination could be coming soon - awaiting delivery.  There are going to be huge queues to get that done for the population.   There's going to be no way to travel internationally without a certificate.   There has to be some international recognition of the COVID19 vaccination certificates - it's a utterly ridiculous hodge podge now between regions and countries.   It's not like it hasn't been done before - the WHO International Certificate of Vaccination for Yellow Fever is commonplace. A new one for COVID19 will need to be developed and added in.   

Biden will need to put the USA back in the WHO asap as they are the only ones with international certificates recognised everywhere.

The Danube house was about a block from the river and uphill, cute a half built solid brick house. Nice cherry trees too.
Oh well, that 's been a long time back now.
I will wait out any vax until they force me in.
Haven't had a flu shot since 1998 either.
Only took it then because I was new at casino work and my workplace was giving them out for free to all in our family right there at work, n lines nothing to hassle about. In fact they sort of really wanted us to get shots, I went along to get along.
I am sure there will be many people who get a bad reaction from whatever they jab us with.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

The Danube house was about a block from the river and uphill, cute a half built solid brick house. Nice cherry trees too.
Oh well, that 's been a long time back now.
I will wait out any vax until they force me in.
Haven't had a flu shot since 1998 either.
Only took it then because I was new at casino work and my workplace was giving them out for free to all in our family right there at work, n lines nothing to hassle about. In fact they sort of really wanted us to get shots, I went along to get along.
I am sure there will be many people who get a bad reaction from whatever they jab us with.

I quite like these houses on stilts as it's handy for parking the car.   I don't remember how much the sea level would rise but perhaps 10m? 30ft?  No idea.  Looking it up would be too efficient and less fun that speculating.

You should really consider the flu shot.  Anyone over about 50-55 should have it.  It's just taking out more risk factors which could compound any illness one might have including COVID19.  Influenza vaccines are very well tried and tested.  The risk is negligible.  Getting the actual jab might be quite difficult.  Mrs Fluffy was told there's a shortage.  That's an issue of PPP (P*ss Poor Planning).

Not spreading rumours or fake news but here's a CNN interview from a South Dakota nurse who lives in the oddly named town of Woonsocket. Click here for interview.   I was sent this from a guy I know in LA.  It's on CNN so trustworthy (if you're not Trump).

(as sent to me)

Hungary: Government announces new shopping restrictions due to the coronavirus

As of 24 November 2020 authorities have instituted revised shopping hours nationwide in an effort to reduce at-risk populations' exposure to the coronavirus.

Until further notice, only individuals age 65 and older will be permitted to enter grocery stores and shopping centers from 09:00 – 11:00 local time (08:00 – 10:00 GMT) on weekdays and 08:00 – 10:00 local time (07:00 – 09:00 GMT) on weekends.

Just found this news this morning, was planning on shopping today one way or the other so had to hustle  to the farmers market although  I do not think shopping later in the day will bring fines to those over 65. I was stopped 2 times within 5 mins. had to show my ID because they thought I was a  tresspasser.  Ego boost, I'll take it!
Guess there are not a ton of tall slim old ladies here. Sorry folks ,I hated being tall as a child but now, I am digging it for what it's worth!
Actually it was 3 times i I was stopped and had to "show papers" forgot we went into Aldi before11 am. Totally being an egomanic here, sorry.

What a Hungarian immunologist thinks of the vaccine:

ATV interview with Hungarian immunologist (in Hungarian)

It's not fake news, I'm not anti-vaxxer or anything like that. I'm pro-vaccine.  You don't need to speak Hungarian to see someone caught on the hop.   

The question just before timestamp 1:00 was "Would you be first to take it?".

BTW, there's some other forum stories (no links yet or verification in media) around that government hospitals who say people who die there and their deaths are attributable to COVID19 receive extra money.   Therefore the hospitals are reporting everyone died of COVID19. 

As usual, based upon the laws of unintended consequences, apparently insurance companies have said they are not paying out for COVID19 deaths.  Doh!

Looks like a potential problem. Maybe someone else knows verifiable truth on this story.

Wow, the look on her face when asked...

Vicces1 wrote:

Wow, the look on her face when asked...

Oh yes, she was caught out by the question. 

Basic rules are obvious.   Going on a TV show unprepared is not what people should do.   It's like being in court - never get in that environment where you could be on the spot.  She could have asked them to submit their questions in writing beforehand.   And one should never be asked a question that one doesn't know the answer to.  Deviations from agreed questions should mean stopping the interview.

Now she's going to get it in the neck from the court of public opinion.

She could have just said "Yes, of course I will take it", even if she doesn't believe  it.    Then job done!

Costs of vaccine:



Note the Russian vaccine is not the cheapest.

Question is what is the unit cost of the non-Russian vaccines delivered to the arm of a HU or resident person.   

I reckon free to everyone delivered by any clinic, private or public,  regardless of residential status.  Basically everyone who wants it.   They will need to have a tracking and registration system.

Hungary: Authorities extend coronavirus restrictions through 11 January 2021

As of 11 December 2020 authorities in Hungary have extended nationwide coronavirus restrictions through at least 11 January 2021 due to the ongoing outbreak. These measures include a nightly curfew between 20:00 – 05:00 local time (19:00 – 04:00 GMT) and the closure of all leisure facilities. In-person services at cafes and restaurants remain prohibited, though take away and delivery services are permitted to continue. Nonessential stores must close by 19:00 local time (18:00 GMT) and all individuals are required to wear face masks in public spaces and aboard public transportation.

Some bad news from the countryside, particularly Nyíregyházá.

Cemetery/Crematorium has containerised refrigeration units installed as hospital morgues are full up with C19 victims. Verified news item (see link to original at the end). Local hospital has a container as well and said:

"The refrigerated container in our facility currently serves as a safety reserve. We are prepared for the worst case scenario, if the number of deaths due to the epidemic continues to rise, we will still be able to accommodate the deceased in a dignified manner."



Original pages: Fridge Containers in Nyíregyházá

Hungary: Authorities suspend UK flights from 22 December

Beginning 00:01 local time (23:01 GMT) on 22 December 2020 authorities will suspend all inbound and outbound flights from the UK. Cargo flights will be exempt. Extant restrictions on the entry of foreign nationals remain in effect.

Some UK nationals – including those with a permanent residence permit, a permit to remain in country for at least 90 days and those arriving for business or trade activities – may be permitted to enter.

Individuals should adhere to the directives of local authorities, contact their flight provider for itinerary-specific information and monitor official sources for updates.

It's just a mess.
I suppose it's time to try out the idea of sending yourself by post?
Was watching CNN last night, been ages since I watched any news on tv.
170 truck drivers waiting outside of London to unload foods and supplies. They are just waiting in the trucks because no one is allowed to enter the city. At least that's what they mentioned last night.
The newscaster made a faux pas by calling Biden President Biden, my husband didn't catch that but I did. He later corrected himself. It's almost like dissing the Queen when she is still living.
Not that I care who is president one way or the other, same game plan will be in effect. Biden did however state the day he is sworn in( if that does happen?) he  will make it law that for 100 days everyone will have to wear a mask and he will enforce it where and when he can. Also wants at least 100 million people in the US to get vaxed within his first 100 days in office.
Guess I am not going home anytime soon...
Watched another U tube vid last night, news was getting on my nerves, they had some clips about c19 with music, they played Billy Idol's song, "Eyes without a Face" seemed to be  an appropriate tune for these times.
Let the good time roll...

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

It's just a mess.
I suppose it's time to try out the idea of sending yourself by post?
Was watching CNN last night, been ages since I watched any news on tv.
170 truck drivers waiting outside of London to unload foods and supplies. They are just waiting in the trucks because no one is allowed to enter the city. At least that's what they mentioned last night.
The newscaster made a faux pas by calling Biden President Biden, my husband didn't catch that but I did. He later corrected himself. It's almost like dissing the Queen when she is still living.
Not that I care who is president one way or the other, same game plan will be in effect. Biden did however state the day he is sworn in( if that does happen?) he  will make it law that for 100 days everyone will have to wear a mask and he will enforce it where and when he can. Also wants at least 100 million people in the US to get vaxed within his first 100 days in office.
Guess I am not going home anytime soon...
Watched another U tube vid last night, news was getting on my nerves, they had some clips about c19 with music, they played Billy Idol's song, "Eyes without a Face" seemed to be  an appropriate tune for these times.
Let the good time roll...

CNN have got that completely wrong then. 

The 170 trucks are trying to LEAVE the UK via Dover and go to France.  Dover is the No. 1 port for truck traffic to France - 10,000 trucks a day.   Dover is about 60 miles/100 km from London and the closest point to France (23 miles I believe).  I've been through it very many times and it's a really busy place with ferries coming and going every 30 minutes. The largest ferries can hold 1000+ cars or 180 trucks.  It's a massive operation.

As of a few hours ago, the number of trucks is 1500 and they are in a holding area (at London Manston Airport).  I heard a report from a reporter on the ground that most trucks are European trucks with drivers and trucks from places like Bulgaria, Latvia and so on and they are on the way home.  There are some trucks with British fresh fish/live seafood trying to deliver into France.  They may have to return back to their bases and put the fish and seafood back in tanks.   

There are no trucks trying to get into London to unload food and supplies.  There are no restrictions on movements of supplies in the UK.  Only restrictions on people moving between Tiers (areas restricted because of COVID19).

Biden I saw had his jab on the TV.  Might as well be President as President-Elect. Trump has more or less disappeared from view.  The only thing he said recently was that Federal buildings should be in the Roman or Greek style.   Yep Donny, that's the thing to focus on, something you "know" about.

Biden won't be able to get 100M vaccinated.  It's impossible because MAGA loons will resist and put up all sorts of barriers and hunker down in their bunkers with their AR15s.  Trump needs to be on TV getting his shot.  His sidekick did it but now the Teflon Don needs to do it.  Or perhaps he's planning a pardon for the virus in his last days.

Never quite sure if I like Billy Idol.  Rebel Yell was a good one though.   Catchy but I lost interest.  I always got confused  with Iggy Pop and Billy Idol.  Never really understood why Iggy Pop was famous. You'd think he could afford a T-shirt when performing.

Update:

Hungary has announced they will be restricting flights to/from the UK from 00:01 Tuesday 22 December. 

Cargo flights will not be affected by the new restrictions.

The ban is in effect until 8 February 2021.

Source: HMG

https://www.mail.com/int/scitech/health … -brit.html

Mrs Fluffy tried to post a letter to the UK today and they refused to take any letters bound for the UK. 

Apparently postal services for letters to there are currently suspended.

Parcels are probably still OK (MPL, UPS, DHL etc) as cargo flights are still going there.