Everyday payments

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

The card phenomena is a direct result of the COVID outbreak; prior to that, cash was accepted everywhere, in fact when I first moved to Holland it was remarkable to me how behind most other countries they were in regards to e-banking and credit cards, but it's how people liked it I guess.

To answer your questions:

Discussion - No, I've not noticed any public discord about this in either the mainstream press or social media.

Alternatives - No, there are no anonymous methods of paying for good/services.  Many people see questions such as you're asking as suspicious and typically asked by people with black money they are trying to hide from the Belastingdienst.  Most Dutch people see this as an improvement and are hoping that it will grow; that said, cash will return post-Covid and you'll be able to buy ice cream at the beach, but that's about it.

Some shops have branded cards (i.e. Costa), but you can only use it for items you buy in Costa and there will be a record of you have bought the card, so the anonymity is gone there; also, whenever you use them, there will be a record linking that card to your original purchase; it's how they gather customer data to help in development.

Hope this helps.

Cynic
Expat Team

Just to add and as an example as to why cash is becoming less popular with the authorities, in this mornings press is a story from NOS, of a man who was trying to launder half a million Euros in cash; he was caught by the Police and all the money confiscated.  If you've only been here for a few weeks, your Dutch may not be up to much yet, but this link tells the story.

Hi Cynic!

Thanks for your reply!
That's really interesting!
OK, so it's mainly now contactless to prevent corona. When I was in Holland few years ago, I saw two different restaurants acceping card payments only, which made me believe cash was already rarely used in society, but seem to had been a singular incident then.
If there are really no privacy-based concerns about abolishing anonymous payments, then I think that's utterly horrifying. One day every payment, every purchase will be recorded, allowing huge potential for surveillance.
I wonder how homeless people are supposed to buy anything. Maybe they'll beg with card readers in the future.
Also interesting your assessment that Holland was behind. Only thing that I read was that they didn't like to use credit cards, but PIN bank cards.
The branded cards would be a little bit helpful indeed. But if you buy one in cash, then you'd be able to pay with this card anonymously next time, no? Then again, if they usually accept cash anyway, it's more or less pointless.
Cheers!

Hi again.

Not really that simple.  Covid is certainly the reason for the current situation regarding paying in cash; it will stay that way until they find a vaccine.  Prior to that, in 40> years I've never experienced any shop/bar or restaurant that was card only.  The common here was Eurocheques and Betalcheques, then a PIN system that was not universally used by all shops (mainly because the bank took a cut of the money), so cash was king until the EU sponsored banking system was introduced and it became very easy to move money around.  It's only relatively recently that paying by PIN became the standard in Holland.  It would not surprise me if Covid became the prime-facia reason for the demise of cash in the modern world.

As for them tracking "us"; you should be aware that the Belastingdienst do have the right to tell your bank to disclose anything they want to know about you.  The Dutch do have a national registration database and it's virtually impossible to live here without registering, so they know all about you anyway, worrying about it doesn't help or stop them looking if they need to.  If you haven't registered, it's only a matter of time before they find out and start looking for you.

The story that I linked to earlier; the law in Holland permits you to carry cash, but if you are stopped by the Police and have a large amount of cash and if/when asked, cannot prove it was obtained legally and all appropriate taxes have been paid on it, they can take it from you until you provide that proof.

All that said, the Dutch are a very liberal nation and it doesn't worry the most of them, so perhaps it's nothing to worry about.

Just to add, I've just read on Dutch twitter that the Dutch government have enacted emergency legislation so they can access everyone's mobile phone data in the fight against Covid - link here.

Cynic
Expat Team

Hi Cynic!

Thanks for your interesting remarks!
It is a very liberal nation indeed. That is one major reason why I came to consider living in the Netherlands. Staying for a bit longer than tourists do, convinced me that I was right on many accounts, and that Holland is really a country with a high quality of living.
However, one big drawback is the lack of anonymous payment options.
You're absolutely right, the tax office can ask the bank to give them information about a person that has an account there. While I am not terribly excited about that, I have to admit that it makes sense. It is good to have laws and measures in place that effectively prevent money laundring. That's why Belastingdienst accessing those information is the least of my concerns. The problem is that other authorities can access these data as well and, on top of that, private companies as well. And it's not that they'd know anything anyway - they only know what you allow them to collect. Provided you have a choice, that is.
If people decide, for convenience sake, to allow the collection of their data, that's perfectly fine. But I think there should always be an alternative.
If I buy a salad in Rotterdam on Sunday and a coffee in Harlem on Monday and fuel in Leiden on Tuesday - that's inherently private information, and I think I should have the right to keep it to myself. If I, all of the sudden, start buying nappies and toys, again, I want to decide myself whether it's fine that this information is accessible to plenty of institutions or not.
As for the mobile phone data, well, I think that's reasonable. As long as the government is trustworthy and transparent in its actions, that's fine.
Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see a big deal here, because it's about anonymous data only. And furthermore, there's no registration needed when buying a SIM card here, which is absolutely great. So the cards are not personalised (unless you want to and sign a contract). And if you really want to remain private, you don't carry any phone with you anyway. (In other words, here is something I consider a fair choice: Having a phone or not. I can do without a phone; but I can't do without ever buying anything again.)
Anyways, thanks again for your input! Already very helpful!

In the Netherlands most people pay with their "pinpas", telephone or app. Of course there are some people like our elderly who have troubles with it, but due to the Corona virus they are learning quickly.

I never heard stores or restaurants refusing cash. You always can pay in cash, but it's true due to the corona crisis some stores in the beginning they didn't want cash. Of course there were exeptions like the elderly and disabled people they still could pay in cash.

In the Netherlands there aren't really movements that wants to keep cash, I think because people just don't really care about it.
Most people have a savings account, it's the national hobby to save money and the trust in our national banks is very high. We have laws to secure our privacy in banking.
We know "de belastingdienst" knows everything about us and I can't say for all people, but we really don't care about it.

Nobody really cares where you spent your money on, so don't worry.