"Plate Snatching" in Restaurants

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

, I don't know if you were being serious, but it would be completely unacceptable to shout at other people's children in Ireland. Also, houses in America are very cheap to buy compared, for example, to Ireland. I really believe we have to accept other people's way of life if we are going to live amongst them.

If you aren't from the US you won't get the "stay off my lawn" reference.   Your reaction about how it would be unacceptable to do in Ireland is...quaint.

It refers to the average old guy, set in his ways, not accepting things from the younger generation, standing on his porch yelling at the kids cutting across the corner of his perfectly manicured lawn.

And yes I do look forward to go back to the chance to buy a new 400 meter house on a 6,000 meter lot for less than $300K.  I can't even buy a crappy 100 meter smidge of dirt here for that.

Even between first world countries, there are many things I had to learn to accept when living in Italy.  Here's life in Italy during the 7 years I lived there, and as it was 3 years ago when I returned for a visit:

- The queue worked only half of the time., the other half, it's exactly like in Vietnam.   

- People stopped and stood literally on the middle of the streets/pathways to talk to one another instead of moving to one side. 

- Crossing the streets in Rome had the same risk as in Saigon.  That was the reason I didn't have any problem stepping in the middle of Saigon traffic, I was used to it after years risking my life as a pedestrian in Rome.

- Thieves, pickpockets, scammers, overcharging taxi drivers, switching money, switching merchandises, Gypsies, the list was ten times longer than what one encountered in Saigon and the chance to be robbed was also much greater than in Saigon.

- There's no such thing was showing up to work on time.  It took 2.5 months for an electrician to come to my house to replace a ceiling lamp.  "I'll be there on Thursday" was the sentence one heard most often when dealing with every kind of workmen.

- Government records were still kept by hand in quadruple forms although computer was part of the record keeping procedure.  Lining up along the walls of every government office were huge binders with the years written on the spine, showing the dates as far as 10, 15 years back.

- A foreigner opening a bank account in Italy would meet the same hassle as in Vietnam.

- Men still leer and stare at women.  No matter the age of both genders.

- Age and sex discrimination was part of life.  Many signs and adverts for workers clearly indicated "female, no older than 27, good appearance, stylish." 

- Sex manipulation was also part of life.  More than half of female TV presenters/ interviewers/ talk show hosts wore see through and low cut clothing.  Huge billboards advertising bottle water showed half naked women (the upper half of the body was unclothed, and that's the only part of the body shown on the billboards.)

- Workers were protected by powerful union and employment law.  As long as they didn't steal from their employers and as long as they showed up, they couldn't be fired even if they failed to perform their duties.

- Litter bugs?  What do you expect me to do, looking for a bin while I dress to kill?

Vietnamese people have a lot to improve, but they're not the worst bunch.  Some of their shortcomings can be blamed on the poor education offered by their government, while a country that has been revered for culture, arts, fashion, innovation, and self pride is not that much different in many aspects of life. 

When living abroad by choice, I don't blindly ignore the negative while praising the positive, but I do know that however I feel about that country, I'm not in a position to change anything.  Easier to enjoy the good and stay away from the bad as much as possible.  As the saying "life is too short..." has been more true with each year passed, I don't want to waste whatever time I've left on earth to complain about life.

A lovely post, thank you. We can change nothing but ourselves, the sooner we learn this the happier we will be.
Interesting about Italy, I love Italy and spent many happy holidays there, however I have a couple of female Italian friends who live in Ireland and they say "it's a lovely country but very hard to live there".

Ciambella wrote:

Even between first world countries, there are many things I had to learn to accept when living in Italy.  Here's life in Italy during the 7 years I lived there, and as it was 3 years ago when I returned for a visit:

- The queue worked only half of the time., the other half, it's exactly like in Vietnam.   

- People stopped and stood literally on the middle of the streets/pathways to talk to one another instead of moving to one side. 

- Crossing the streets in Rome had the same risk as in Saigon.  That was the reason I didn't have any problem stepping in the middle of Saigon traffic, I was used to it after years risking my life as a pedestrian in Rome.

- Thieves, pickpockets, scammers, overcharging taxi drivers, switching money, switching merchandises, Gypsies, the list was ten times longer than what one encountered in Saigon and the chance to be robbed was also much greater than in Saigon.

- There's no such thing was showing up to work on time.  It took 2.5 months for an electrician to come to my house to replace a ceiling lamp.  "I'll be there on Thursday" was the sentence one heard most often when dealing with every kind of workmen.

- Government records were still kept by hand in quadruple forms although computer was part of the record keeping procedure.  Lining up along the walls of every government office were huge binders with the years written on the spine, showing the dates as far as 10, 15 years back.

- A foreigner opening a bank account in Italy would meet the same hassle as in Vietnam.

- Men still leer and stare at women.  No matter the age of both genders.

- Age and sex discrimination was part of life.  Many signs and adverts for workers clearly indicated "female, no older than 27, good appearance, stylish." 

- Sex manipulation was also part of life.  More than half of female TV presenters/ interviewers/ talk show hosts wore see through and low cut clothing.  Huge billboards advertising bottle water showed half naked women (the upper half of the body was unclothed, and that's the only part of the body shown on the billboards.)

- Workers were protected by powerful union and employment law.  As long as they didn't steal from their employers and as long as they showed up, they couldn't be fired even if they failed to perform their duties.

- Litter bugs?  What do you expect me to do, looking for a bin while I dress to kill?

Vietnamese people have a lot to improve, but they're not the worst bunch.  Some of their shortcomings can be blamed on the poor education offered by their government, while a country that has been revered for culture, arts, fashion, innovation, and self pride is not that much different in many aspects of life. 

When living abroad by choice, I don't blindly ignore the negative while praising the positive, but I do know that however I feel about that country, I'm not in a position to change anything.  Easier to enjoy the good and stay away from the bad as much as possible.  As the saying "life is too short..." has been more true with each year passed, I don't want to waste whatever time I've left on earth to complain about life.

Opening a bank account anywhere in the EU is easy if you have a passport or driving licence, N26 like many other internet Banks just want proof of ID

Age and racial discrimination for employment is also ilegal in the EU, you cannot advertise a job based in age and appearance

And yes completely agree on the education side of things, it should come from government or an appointed official body. But like many things here that are ilegal no one takes a blind bit of notice

Change takes time..

I don't know about other peoples experiences, but I feel I am a very lucky guy to live here in Vietnam.

England my old country is a basket case and ... top that with stupid high house prices, low wages (vs costs) and the terrible weather ... this place is paradise compared.

Yeah the driving drives me nuts ... extremely nuts ... but apart from that and the humidity ... all is great.

I have a beautiful wife, a newborn baby and I can afford it all on teachers wages.

I lived in Mexico, Italy and the Caribbean before so maybe that helps my acclimatization ... probably.

I would not swap this country for the US or the UK ... NO way.

Love it here.

SongwriterUK wrote:

I don't know about other peoples experiences, but I feel I am a very lucky guy to live here in Vietnam.

England my old country is a basket case and ... top that with stupid high house prices, low wages (vs costs) and the terrible weather ... this place is paradise compared.

Yeah the driving drives me nuts ... extremely nuts ... but apart from that and the humidity ... all is great.

I have a beautiful wife, a newborn baby and I can afford it all on teachers wages.

I lived in Mexico, Italy and the Caribbean before so maybe that helps my acclimatization ... probably.

I would not swap this country for the US or the UK ... NO way.

Love it here.

Where abouts in VN are you?
For sure much better here than the UK,

SongwriterUK wrote:

I don't know about other peoples experiences, but I feel I am a very lucky guy to live here in Vietnam.

England my old country is a basket case and ... top that with stupid high house prices, low wages (vs costs) and the terrible weather ... this place is paradise compared.

Yeah the driving drives me nuts ... extremely nuts ... but apart from that and the humidity ... all is great.

I have a beautiful wife, a newborn baby and I can afford it all on teachers wages.

I lived in Mexico, Italy and the Caribbean before so maybe that helps my acclimatization ... probably.

I would not swap this country for the US or the UK ... NO way.

Love it here.

And yet, Vietnamese will risk life and limb to get into the UK, not seeing that happen here in reverse. Havent read about any UK citizens being smuggled into paradise.

Quy Nhon.

I was also in Da Nang, Kon Tum, and Tam Ky among other places

Where are you?

I cannot imagine how horrible the racism towards Vietnamese is there.

But yeah ... the illusion of the UK seems better to some VN than Vietnam.

I am sure they had their reasons ...  not all of us have such easy lives.

I did say MY experience.

Vietnam is on the UP. The UK on the way down. It is about energy. That is my opinion.

UK has run out  For now.

It has come back before so who knows.

SongwriterUK wrote:

I cannot imagine how horrible the racism towards Vietnamese is there.

But yeah ... the illusion of the UK seems better to some VN than Vietnam.

I am sure they had their reasons ...  not all of us have such easy lives.

I did say MY experience.

Vietnam ia on the UP. The UK on the way down. It is about energy. That is my opinion.

UK has run out  For now.

It has come back before so who knows.

I agree with what you say, but to many Vietnamese Vietnam is not suitable, that includes my wife.

Even though some people think expats whinge about Vietnam, more a case of expressing an opinion, I for one do the same thing on a daily basis about my home country. We are all citizens of the world, not just a single country, therefore, being able to express your thoughts shouldnt be deemed as complaining.

I think a lot has to do with how much money people make when they are in the US.  If you are a 10%er you love the US.  If you are a teacher in the US you are struggling to get by whereas you can live well here on an even lower teacher's salary.  One of the biggest attractions for people coming here is the low cost of living, whether they are working or retired.  If you are used to and can afford a good life in the US the shine wears off on VN more quickly.  If one always struggled financially in the US they can find their increased buying power cures a lot of ills.  Perception is skewed by previous experience.

SteinNebraska wrote:

I think a lot has to do with how much money people make when they are in the US.  If you are a 10%er you love the US.  If you are a teacher in the US you are struggling to get by whereas you can live well here on an even lower teacher's salary.  One of the biggest attractions for people coming here is the low cost of living, whether they are working or retired.  If you are used to and can afford a good life in the US the shine wears off on VN more quickly.  If one always struggled financially in the US they can find their increased buying power cures a lot of ills.  Perception is skewed by previous experience.

Cheap alcohol, cheap cost of living, flexibility with laws and the ability to meet a woman are some of the factors for many expats.

I guess what I'm saying is you don't see a lot of wealthy US or European people who can live comfortably wherever they are uprooting themselves and moving to Vietnam and saying "yeah, this is GREAT".

What you do is is a lot of people that move here on little money but that little money now goes much further and they go from pauper to king.  These people are saying "yeah, this is GREAT!"

colinoscapee wrote:

Cheap alcohol, cheap cost of living, flexibility with laws and the ability to meet a woman are some of the factors for many expats.

Oh, I totally get this.  I wouldn't have moved here if it wasn't for my wife.  I didn't want to stay in the US waiting for a year and a half before she could join me.  But I'm leaving with her as soon as practical.

Ciambella wrote:

Even between first world countries, there are many things I had to learn to accept when living in Italy.  Here's life in Italy during the 7 years I lived there, and as it was 3 years ago when I returned for a visit:

While technically correct and I don't doubt your experiences, as an arrogant German with business in Switzerland and almost 30% of our clients being located in northern Italy I wouldn't exactly call Italy a first world country  .

Prejudices are strong in me, but generally there's a reason why central/northern Europeans consider the southern European countries vacation destinations rather than livable places. They'd move to Netherlands, Scandinavia, Ireland for working  and living but to Italy, Greece and Spain for retiring.

In my opinion the sentiment down there (especially among less educated people) is far closer to the Vietnamese people than for example to the German or Swiss. Somewhat "relaxed', careless, egoistical and often very short term thinking. That might be very generalizing and not exactly fair but those are my observations nonetheless.

devbob wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

Even between first world countries, there are many things I had to learn to accept when living in Italy.  Here's life in Italy during the 7 years I lived there, and as it was 3 years ago when I returned for a visit:

While technically correct and I don't doubt your experiences, as an arrogant German with business in Switzerland and almost 30% of our clients being located in northern Italy I wouldn't exactly call Italy a first world country  .

Prejudices are strong in me, but generally there's a reason why central/northern Europeans consider the southern European countries vacation destinations rather than livable places. They'd move to Netherlands, Scandinavia, Ireland for working  and living but to Italy, Greece and Spain for retiring.

In my opinion the sentiment down there (especially among less educated people) is far closer to the Vietnamese people than for example to the German or Swiss. Somewhat "relaxed', careless, egoistical and often very short term thinking. That might be very generalizing and not exactly fair but those are my observations nonetheless.

Hahaha " as an arrogant German". Thats too damn funny. 

devbob wrote:

Ciambella wrote:

Even between first world countries, there are many things I had to learn to accept when living in Italy.  Here's life in Italy during the 7 years I lived there, and as it was 3 years ago when I returned for a visit:

While technically correct and I don't doubt your experiences, as an arrogant German with business in Switzerland and almost 30% of our clients being located in northern Italy I wouldn't exactly call Italy a first world country  .

Prejudices are strong in me, but generally there's a reason why central/northern Europeans consider the southern European countries vacation destinations rather than livable places. They'd move to Netherlands, Scandinavia, Ireland for working  and living but to Italy, Greece and Spain for retiring.

In my opinion the sentiment down there (especially among less educated people) is far closer to the Vietnamese people than for example to the German or Swiss. Somewhat "relaxed', careless, egoistical and often very short term thinking. That might be very generalizing and not exactly fair but those are my observations nonetheless.

I agree somewhat but dont entirely agree, I worked in Italy for 8 years our head office was in Ravenna but the 3 oil rigs we had operating there worked up & down the Adriatic coast from Venice to Reggio & we had regional offices up & down the coast. In my opinion Northern Italian cities like Milan & Turin  are "first World" but further south you went the more "third" world it got!

Talking of all things Italian. I saw a late model Fiat Bambino in Vung Tau the other day. It looked great.

colinoscapee wrote:

Talking of all things Italian. I saw a late model Fiat Bambino in Vung Tau the other day. It looked great.

check this one out this morning on my walk & still on the road hauling water drilling pipe

Looks like a Piaggio Ape ?

goodolboy wrote:

check this one out this morning on my walk & still on the road hauling water drilling pipe

https://i.postimg.cc/zbYYpz1s/truck.png

That's the old Lambretta Lambro 550 which up until 1975 was part of the public transportation in South Vietnam.  There were two benches in the back with enough room for 6 people.   With 6, no knees were touched, but when another person or two squeezed herself/themselves in, everyone became pretty intimate with one another.  The seat on the right side of the driver was for another passenger.  The Vietnamese called it "xe lam" (short for Lambretta and Lambro).

It's similar to Ape, except that Ape has doors to protect the driver and a bit lower in the front.  The two companies, Vespa and Lambretta, probably shared their patterns at some point in the past because Lambretta scooter also has a bit longer body and squarer front than Vespa.

Ciambella wrote:

With 6, no knees were touched, but when another person or two squeezed herself in, everyone became pretty intimate with one another.  The seat on the right side of the driver was for another passenger.

I wonder who go to sit comfortably in the front. First come first serve? Elderly, pregnant women, disabled people? Or was it a matter of money?

Another one:

devbob wrote:

I wonder who go to sit comfortably in the front. First come first serve? Elderly, pregnant women, disabled people? Or was it a matter of money?

There was never a rule or priority, and the fee was the same.  I sat there once just to see how it was, but women usually didn't want to sit so close to a man whom they didn't know personally.  I was slim so there was no problem having my entire body inside the cab, but even though men were the ones who often sat up front, they usually had part of one knee out of the open door due to the way most men sat.

More comfortable in one way, less comfortable in other way.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Opening a bank account anywhere in the EU is easy if you have a passport or driving licence, N26 like many other internet Banks just want proof of ID

Age and racial discrimination for employment is also ilegal in the EU, you cannot advertise a job based in age and appearance

On the opening an account in Italy:  I walked into the old money Cassa Di Risparmio Dell'Umbria with a valid US passport, a residence visa issued by the Italian Consulate in Los Angeles, and $67k to open an account. 

The officer took photocopies of the documents and both sides of the $100 notes (20 of them; the rest was in the form of certified bank check) interrogated me on my motives, then told me he couldn't allow me to open an account with them.  I asked for his reason.  After many umms and ahhs, and after my realtor stepped in to intervene, he told us the tale of some Americans who opened their accounts 10 year previously which they left inactive after a short while.  The bank tried to contact the customers with no avail.  From then, the bank believed that tourists in general and American tourists in particular were not worth having as customers.

I answered that I wasn't a tourist, I was a new resident who was going to be a homeowner.  No matter.

My realtor demanded to see the manager, then spent 15 minutes saying how he would make the bank manager look like a fool in the community and how he would give business to the other bank across the piazza from now on.  That's when I was allowed the privilege of having an account there, but the officer refused to give me an ATM card until I can prove myself trustworthy.  For 6 weeks afterwards, I had to go inside the bank a couple times each week to withdraw cash.  Every single time, they asked for my passport and visa, took copies of both before handed out the money.

(Internet bank wasn't an option.  Many houses were still bought and sold for a combination of cash and numerous small denomination cashier checks paying to different names so the seller could avoid paying tax --  even though it wasn't necessary in my case as the house was 800+ years old thus exempted from levy.) 

After the house became mine fully and legally, I closed the account.  Of course I had to show my passport and visa so they could take another set of copies.  They then charged me all kinds of fees, asked me to fill out a survey (such nerve!), then finally handed over the rest of my money. 

On the issue of age and racial discrimination for employment:  Yes, I know it's illegal in the EU, but I had seen numerous adverts in the classifieds and on shops' doors indicating the required age, gender, and appearance.  None of them mentioned race though.

goodolboy wrote:

I agree somewhat but dont entirely agree, In my opinion Northern Italian cities like Milan & Turin  are "first World" but further south you went the more "third" world it got!

I do agree with you on that.  The Northern Umbrian town where we lived was a few minutes from the border of Tuscany and an hour east of Florence so there wasn't any sense of third world, although the culture, albeit rich and beautiful, was definitely not what I was used to before I moved there.

Banking has changed a lot in the last 2-3 years in the west.. to the point anyone with photo ID can open account -not always a good thing with the dodgy scammers stealing identities.

The scooter taxi thing reminds me of a trip to Krabi in 2011, booked a taxi at hotel reception for three of us to go and watch Thai boxing . Taxi turns up.. jump in the back, the next thing I new a little thai girl jumped in next to me.. thought hey taxi with extras.. turns out she was the drivers girlfriend and jumped in to talk to us

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Banking has changed a lot in the last 2-3 years in the west.. to the point anyone with photo ID can open account -not always a good thing with the dodgy scammers stealing identities.

The scooter taxi thing reminds me of a trip to Krabi in 2011, booked a taxi at hotel reception for three of us to go and watch Thai boxing . Taxi turns up.. jump in the back, the next thing I new a little thai girl jumped in next to me.. thought hey taxi with extras.. turns out she was the drivers girlfriend and jumped in to talk to us

you sure it was a girl?

SteinNebraska wrote:

Based on my experience with dining out it has to do with moving patrons in and out quickly, turning the tables.  Especially in smaller places that tend to be full.  Getting your butt out of the seat opens the table for someone else,

It's also self-inflicted.  My wife and her family are like that a lot.  Last bite in your mouth and they are standing up and saying "OK, go".  I have tried to explain dining in the US where 2-3 hour dinners are common.  They ask "what do you do all that time?  You can't eat that long."  I think the poorer people eating, whether at home or at a restaurant is strictly a means of stuffing sustinence down your gullet so you can get back to work, not meant as an enjoyable occasion.

Yes, it could have something to do with that. I'm an extremely slow eater when dining alone and even more so when with friends and having a good conversion. Also, as you mention, most Viets finish up quickly. So, maybe waitresses just get that urge to grab that plate if you have been lingering too long.

goodolboy wrote:

Lived in France (Montignac Sur Vezere Dordogne) for 3 years & ate out a lot there & never saw plate snatching there in fact the opposite, meals there were a very social thing & 3 hours was not unusual. So dont think we can blame the French for that one!

Yes, now that I think about it, I have eaten in French-owned and operated restaurants here and in Laos, and you're right, I never had this problem. Perhaps, it's the Australian influence? 

Anyway, it's not a big thing. It's just that it happened 3 nights in a row that week.

Jlgarbutt wrote:

Quality cutlery, you know the ones that don't bend at the slightest of being used to eat with would be good.

This is another thing occasionally encountered. I don't mind so much in a cheap local place but I have been to some more expensive fine dining places and just had to ask staff to replace them. Sometimes the edges are annoyingly sharp as well.

Malcolmleitrim wrote:

Goodness me, such reactions! It's their country, it's their culture, why on earth should they do it your way?
I would happily live there, but sadly they won't let me, I just have to accept their system and spend as much time as I can absorbing a different way of doing things.

I see your point and agree with you for the most part, but in my case, these are restaurants serving western and Japanese food, where the cost of a meal is approx. 200k vnd. So, a higher level of service is expected unless they want to send customers elsewhere. Unfortunately, another part of the problem is that this is in Vung Tau, and there is not a lot of competition. If these places were in a large city, they'd probably go out of business, but here they flourish.

Thank you for answering all our posts so comprehensively. In the big cities there is definitely something for everyone, especially in expat areas like Tay Ho in Hanoi, but in general I find that Vietnamese people regard eating as just refuelling, eg the quick soup noodle lunch. The exception of course would be the bbq or hot pot in the street, beside the lake, with plenty of beer, this can take many hours.
Thinking about the cutlery issue, they are just not familiar with it. The people I stayed with last winter only used a knife in the kitchen after that it was chopsticks and a spoon all the way. Cooking in a wok with large chopsticks really impressed me. My Vietnamese girlfriend doesn't like fancy restaurants because she finds it awkward to cope with all the napkins, cutlery and glassware.
I love all the variety and hope I can go back soon.