Severance/Liquidation for Indirect Employees?

Do you have a contact for the cleaning services?

She’s not your employee.  She employed by the property manager.  I don’t believe you owe her severance.

gcl1221 wrote:

Do you have a contact for the cleaning services?

We signed a contract for property management services that includes cleaning. Unfortunately, I can't find it right now. Most of the stuff we imported, included what was in our home office, is still packed until our house is completed.

I believe Angelx is correct

Of course it depends...whatever your contract says...you can always ask them to provide you with a copy of the contract if you are being approached by anyone for severance.

No evidence, no case...sorry.

Not a chance you have to liquidate this person. She works for someone else not for you via a management contract.  If you need more info I have a labor lawyer on retainer!

The maid is a employee of the property management company and therefore you have no liability and do not have to pay severence.

I can't really speak tobthe exact laws in the DR, but we have dealt with this in Mexico, Ecuador, and Panama.  In all three situations we hired a maid directly, and in fact were required by law to pay severance.  I beleieve it likely that the law is similar in the DR, and that since she was not your employee, severance is not required.  I would not pay w/o speaking with a lawyer.

Yes, you should check your contract.

I doubt , very much, that the mgt company left itself open the liquidation costs.
You may be on the hook there.

Sort of a 'We hire - You fire' scenario

She works for multiple "contractors" via  the management company.

Again if you want I can check with my labor lawyer.

Sailormarine - the laws here are very very different than most other places.  Our labor laws are out of date and in desperate need of an overhaul

I guess one of my biggest issues is that I cannot believe that they employ this woman just for my apartment. I don't provide daily cleaning during rentals, so at most, she is cleaning a 2 bedroom apartment twice a week.

Is partial severance a thing? If you reduce an employee's hours?

No that is not a thing.   

You need to see if your contract has any termination terms of the contract itself.  You are not liable for her liquidation.

Don't fall for it!

Yes she was never your employee she was a property manager's employee. True they may try to get more money out of you since you're not going to be using them anymore but no you're not required in most cases I pay for another person's employees. I would find a contract though to see if she has some weird loopholes. Trust me some of the contracts I've seen here it's just ridiculous so yeah you really need to find yours so that you could read through it.

Yeah, I understand that...and have workwd with the DR govt for several years, in an official capacity.  In fact, most of their laws are very similar to other LatAm countries, albeit with their own flavor.  Point is that they should consult with a lawyer before paying anything

On the positive side, the most this could be would be about 9000 DOP. Not small change, but not an amount that I'd bother fighting too much.

I'm going to try to find the contract. They can't provide it until next month because the owner of the company has it in her files and she's on holiday in Switzerland until then.

We agree management company is pulling a fast one. Apartment sold cleaning contract defaults to new owner who can continue or hire direct. Check your contract before being held hostage. All best. You are not the employer.

It would not surprise me if the management firm is planning to pocket the money, using this as an opportunity to give you one last squeeze. If true, the worker wouldn't even see a peso of that bill.

It would be best if you could find your copy of the contract. Even if you find it, I'd still make them show you why you owe it. If they show up with a signed contract you didn't sign, that's when I'd pull out yours to get them suddenly straight.

Maybe I've gotten a bit soured, but I don't see why we should have to do the due diligence for sloppy companies or ones that pull a fast one. Make them work for it, before you pull the rug out. Perhaps they'll stop doing it.

2 points here - unless she is explicitly named in the contract then she can’t possibly be owed anything.  Also your contract is with an agency so it can be terminated at will.
Lastly even if by some miracle they can claim that liquidation is owed, cleaning staff are only entitled to about 2 weeks according to my lawyer.  When I terminated my manager (no contract) I had to give her a year’s salary and I had to keep the pool guy as that would also have been a year even though I didn’t even know how much he got paid.  It pays (hah!) to clarify all this in advance.

It's just another shakedown. In any case , she probably gets  more in  tips from gringos than her whole salary amounts to.

She was not your employee and not your problem.

Lots of great answers but with no meaning.  Without the contract, all answers are mere speculation.  The law doesn't factor in unless there is a contract.  A verbally witnessed agreement is also a contract.  If there is no contract and she has nothing in writing between you and her then she has no claim.

End of story.

That may or may not be the final answer. The onus of proof is not on the employee.   It is on the employer.

The OP needs to show she paid a management company not an employee.  And / or show her contractual relationship with the management company.

Not correct.  The employee is the one making the claim, regardless, the employee needs to provide some form of evidence that she was even employed.  Be it a receipt, a bank deposit, a contract, a witness etc.

Courts only decide based on evidence and so far there is none.

If an employee gets a lawyer and makes a claim in the labor courts then the onus of proof is on the one named in the case!  Courts here almost always side with the employee.  So you best have proof that this person was NOT your employee.  You should have a maintenance or management contract etc.  I have seen absolutely ridiculous claims given to so called employees.

It's like the housekeeping staff in any hotel. Nobody calls them employees of the guest. It's just another scam shakedown.

I understand what you are saying Planner.  In this country you are guilty until proven innocent but I have seen multi million dollar lawsuits  awarded in this country where the court was unable to enforce payment so I doubt this case will even raise an eyebrow.

It's certainly not something worth wasting anymore time on. IMO

Absolutely agree!!!

I had a direct part time employee without contract and still had to pay severance when I let him go. Please contact Julio Brea Guzman and pay thru him and have the employee sign the acknowledgment of receipt.

Anyone have a referral for a good Labor Law attorney - reasonable fees for retainer.

I need some contracts drafted for both Independent contract workers and direct employees - also want to have an attorney on fixed retainer to field issues as they pop up.

Thanks in advance just message me

I have a labor lawyer on Retainer here in SD.   This is one where you probably  want one fairly close to where you are as they often meet with employees as needed.

Happy to share his contact info.   Amin Abel Reynoso 1-809-258-2528

Yes it seems weird because usually if you have a contract with a property management company and they hire employees it's in your contract with the property manager that he hold you all responsibility for anyone he contracts out to. I have seen contracts at the property management company tries to slip by a lot of people that are unknowing of the law here and put them in responsibility. That's why it's always good to have a lawyer look over any contract you have in this country. Guzman is really good he comes highly recommended among expats here

Or WDA  In Sousa  came highly recommended

Cltsid...when you said you "had to pay"....does that mean he asked for it and you just paid up? I have seen such many times.

Presence of a contract and or part time status does not necessarily effect whether liquidation needs to be paid.  Many many companies do not use contracts.  And in cases where there are contracts, actual day to day conditions over ride contracts.

We are currently looking for a property manager in the Las Terrenas area and were told by one (Dreams2Realty) that for the cleaning lady, we would need to pay a 2 week bonus after 12 mos and a one month December bonus.  Has any one heard of this, or had to do anything similar?  I asked specifically about  who was actual employer and was told that we were, and they were paying the cleaners on our behalf.  Does anyone have experience with Dreams2Realty they could share or had experience with a similar arrangement?  thank you

My husband (Carlos) does have a similar plan at the hotel where he works.  One of the best in the country.  Their salary is divided into 13 months, and in December they get the double pay which is meant to help them for the holidays (Christmas / New Years).  This is labour law , an employment contract.  This might also be considered an employment contract, even if its between you and them (2 of you).

That being said, they change things whenever they want (so maybe you can too, as the employer), if its reasonable.  I dont think this is reasonable, but for example, salaries have been reduced 20% since returning to work during the pandemic and the work has increased 20% or more. Carlos works more hours than ever before for less pay.   Nothing in writing, only verbal. That sounds like you can do whatever you want.

Here is a link to a lawyer where the labor laws are posted.  From Guzmán Ariza a reputal law firm.

https://drlawyer.com/labor-law/

Burgs - is the cleaner a full time position or like one day a week or part time? This makes a difference.  I don't think this is a good situation. If you are the employer than why go through them?

Karin - your husband is a regular employee at a resort. As such the law is very clear on the 13th paycheck (Christmas pay) and vacation pay. Once an employee has 90 days it must be paid on a pro rata basis!

As to them getting a 20% pay cut - I assume he was suspended or let go during the pandemic.  Bringing them back at 20% pay cut is likely to be illegal but fighting it will get him no where except out of a job. The hotels and resorts doing this are  horrible and at the least, immoral. They are doing this because they can.  It's plain wrong.  And Carlos accepted.it because he needs to earn a living I am sure!

Yes, Carlos wants to work, and care for his children and so thats the situation. Take it or leave it. Hotels take advantage of their employees and no complaints allowed or no job in the future.