Philippine Economic Growth?

Interesting post thanks.

I saw a "Behind Asia" Youtube presentation yesterday discussing debt in the Philippines. All modern economies rely on debt instruments to drive their economies. In the video they were saying that the Philippines has a higher debt/GDP ratio than other Southeast Asian economies, an economic disadvantage.

In contrast, the video noted also that household debt in the Philippines was much lower (a positive aspect). Essentially the video concluded that Filipino "financial literacy" was low, and lending institutions were untrusting of citizens, while the government had aggressively borrowed internationally from the World Bank/ IMF etc.

Meanwhile the presenters were saying that property prices in Philippines were disproportionately high in relation to the average salary, compared to Southeast Asian neighbors. I expect this is explained due to roughly 10% of the population working as OFW's, buying properties at home with better salaries, and purchasing beyond the capacity of local workers.

In my early days touring places like Mindanao, when houses were mostly "native" and modest, infrequently along the mountain route there'd be a huge, overly colourful house standing in the middle of nowhere. It was explained that the owner was "a seaman". More local young men, naturally, were aspiring seaman.

Micro finance - In my worldly travels, I've never seen a place with so many pawnshops than the Philippines. Every little town has a Palawan Pawnshop, Lhullier etc. I suggest this is again because of the lack financial literacy, and minimal bank financing available. Therefore instead, if one puts-up a cell phone or motorbike as collateral, then a (high interest) loan can be attained at one of these pawnshops. 5/6 loans are also available to those with a job, able to service debt. To me, these are strongly negative arrangements, as borrowers will struggle to get out of debt, and ultimately pay much more for at-cost products.

I understand property prices are disproportionately high in the Philippines, however, that is the market value. Buyers are willing to pay there prices. The OFW's, returning Filipinos (boomers or other), Filipinos with foreign spouses and rich locals are buying up properties. Could this be an indication of a healthy economy? I hope so. This is bringing in the hard currency the country needs and I hope the government will take advantage of this situation and create jobs. Corruption and usury, which is endemic in society, need to be checked. Not only authorities will have to control these but the population need to help. We need more of the likes of manwonderwater. Call out them bad people.

@Jackson4

"I understand property prices are disproportionately high in the Philippines, however, that is the market value." The presentation was comparing market value prices in Philippines to that of neighboring countries.

"Could this be an indication of a healthy economy? I hope so. This is bringing in the hard currency the country needs and I hope the government will take advantage of this situation and create jobs." I don't think it's a sign of a healthy economy, using foreign remittances to support the country. Although you have a good point, if the money is used to develop the economy, then this would be positive.

I believe the Philippines has a bright economic future. Looking at it macroeconomically, whilst "developed" nations have aging populations, set to retire and be burdensome to their economy in coming years, the Philippines has average age of 26, with increasing uni-graduates, high English and IT literacy, and increasingly skilled workforce. As you said, the problem is corruption. I'd like to see a CBDC system in place, so that the big money interests in the Philippines can be more accountantable.

I understand property prices are disproportionately high in the Philippines, however, that is the market value. Buyers are willing to pay there prices. The OFW's, returning Filipinos (boomers or other), Filipinos with foreign spouses and rich locals are buying up properties. Could this be an indication of a healthy economy? I hope so. This is bringing in the hard currency the country needs and I hope the government will take advantage of this situation and create jobs. Corruption and usury, which is endemic in society, need to be checked. Not only authorities will have to control these but the population need to help. We need more of the likes of manwonderwater. Call out them bad people.
-@Jackson4

I heard that.

Say ye say ye

Omo...

“300 Years in a Convent, 50 in Hollywood” — is an idiomatic expression coined by the Filipina journalist Carmen Guerrero Nakpil which explains this process very well.

....they should start by paying more attention to self discipline & education.

Great input guys, I appreciate all that has been said,.

As for industry? I remember 50 years ago looking and buying products in Australia and most were made in the Philippines, 30 to 40 years ago Taiwan and the last 20 years or more China. How did this country drop the ball?

The 70's and 80's seemed to be a sad turning point and recovery is slow.

As for property prices? Supply and demand like most countries. We purchased here over 5 years ago and the property has over tripled if not quadrupled to date. First a Mayor splashing cash, 6 odd months later a Governor and it seems all the rich kids want to be here on my street. 90% of the property here on the beach was foreign owned but the tide is turning, seems there are a lot of very wealthy Filipinos but many many more  poor.

As for managing money? As said in many posts the average guys that work here/and I have met over the years don't plan for retirement and the mentality seems to expect children and siblings to pick up their slackness, even Ben still won't put into SSS. We pay 9 to 10 guys every week for the last 6 or 8 weeks and 3 to 4 of them ask for advance pay on Monday, their first day back 4 or 500 pesos.

As others here have said fiscal management seems to be low on the agenda for many.

For me I love the people and the country I retired to even with all the bureaucratic and inept frustrations that occur daily.

OMO (Only my opinion) and not on my own.

Cheers, Steve.

Palaw One <snip> Just had a thought .. other near-by Asian countries are steadily developing their economies .. and certainly their middle classes are increasingly seeing the benefits of a reasonably strong economic growth rate.
However, in the Philippines, as usual, there's not much happening in regards to building national wealth. For just one example, especially regarding traditional manufacturing.
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There are many points brought up beyond the snippet, which I don't think I could knowledgeably comment on.

One problem I see is country is so discombobulated (thank you google for the spelling).

Manufacturing: The infrastructure cannot be developed for movement of supplies and completed good. Other counties have tollways, turnpikes, interstates, parkways, autobahns, motorways   (pick your name) covering their country or multiple counties like in Europe.

Well done on that word Bob, never come across it until now. Another one for the memory bank.

Cheers, Steve.

How about making it easier for FDI's for a start....

google.com/amp/s/www.philstar.com/opinion/2022/09/27/2212453/we-need-more-foreign-direct-investments/amp/

How about making it easier for FDI's for a start....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.philst … ments/amp/
-@manwonder

`

Yes, good points Manwonder and also everyone.

Here's a concise and relevant World Bank overview:

The World Bank in the Philippines: Overview

As the Philippines begins to recover from COVID-19, the country is getting back on track to become an upper middle-income country in the next few years.

Average annual growth has increased to 6.4% between 2010-2019, from an average of 4.5% between 2000-2009.

With increasing urbanization, a growing middle class, and a large and young population, the Philippines’ economic dynamism is rooted in strong consumer demand supported by a vibrant labor market and robust remittances.

Business activities are buoyant with notable performance in the services sector including business process outsourcing, real estate, tourism, and finance and insurance industries.

The Philippine economy has also made progress in delivering inclusive growth, evidenced by a decline in poverty rates and its Gini coefficient. Poverty declined from 23.3% in 2015 to 16.6% in 2018 while the Gini coefficient declined from 44.9 to 42.7 over the same period.

However, the COVID-19 pandemic and community quarantine measures imposed in the country have severely impacted economic growth and poverty reduction.

Growth contracted significantly in 2020, driven by heavy declines in consumption and investment growth, and exacerbated by the slowdown in tourism and remittances.

Similarly, the previous trend in real wages, which is expected to have a positive impact on household incomes—particularly those from the lower income groups—has been severely hampered by the impact of the COVID-19, with negative consequences also for poverty reduction in the Philippines.

Nevertheless, the economy has started to recover with a 5.6% year-on-year expansion in 2021, buoyed by public investment and a recovery in the external environment. 

With continued recovery and reform efforts, the country is getting back on track on its way from a lower middle-income country with a gross national income per capita of US$3,430 in 2020 to an upper middle-income country (per capita income range of US$4,096–US$12,695) in the short term.

The economy is expected to further rebound, drawing strength from the recovering domestic environment with declining COVID-19 cases and wider economic reopening. Still, the economy faces downside risks from the weak external environment, reeling from an expected global growth deceleration, rising inflation, and geopolitical turmoil. The recovery is expected to also have overall positive impact on poverty reduction.

Last Updated: Mar 21, 2022

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So the World Bank note that the Philippines do well in the business services sector, remittances and tourism.

Good, and one notes no mention is made of manufacturing.  Instead, it's modern business activities with notable performance in the services sector, including business-process outsourcing, real estate, tourism, and finance and insurance industries. Sounds promising!

So, if Marcos can grow the already vibrant services sector with appropriate opening-up legislation removing red-tape, and at the same time greatly expanding the agricultural-export sector, then things basically might look quite rosy in the Philippines with respect to financial medium and long terms.

Go the Philippines

@PalawOne

So to sum up, now tourists are back in numbers the service industry (sex workers) are doing well again.

@PalawOne

"Good, and one notes no mention is made of manufacturing. Instead, it's modern business activities with notable performance in the services sector, including business-process outsourcing, real estate, tourism, and finance and insurance industries. Sounds promising!"

I think manufacturing isn't going to be developed because everyone knows that no-one can compete with China. Also natural resources are limited and an archipelago of islands makes logistics difficult. I think @BigPearl said in one of his recent posts that "made in Philippines" disappeared years ago.

Peter Zeihan, who's a geostrategic analyst formerly of Stratfor cites Philippines as an up-and-coming outsourcing hub, too. There's a lot of unharnessed manpower, and so being proficient at languages and process work, there's a market share to be had.

Our Sturdy-One writes: "I think manufacturing isn't going to be developed because everyone knows that no-one can compete with China. Also natural resources are limited and an archipelago of islands makes logistics difficult. I think @BigPearl said in one of his recent posts that "made in Philippines" disappeared years ago.

Peter Zeihan, who's a geostrategic analyst formerly of Stratfor cites Philippines as an up-and-coming outsourcing hub, too. There's a lot of unharnessed manpower, and so being proficient at languages and process work, there's a market share to be had".-@gsturdee

`

Yes, certainly agreed re manufacturing, besides the Philippines just doesn't have sufficient factory-support infrastructure.

As you say, it's much better if the Philippines can grow their worldwide business-support service roles.

For example, my accountant nephew on Palawan has an excellent home-based job, working all night for a worldwide accounting firm. The world time zones mean he can act as a vital East-West time-zones trouble-shooter for the American based multinational company. True he works nights, but he's earning a packet of pesos because of his qualifications and the unique world time-zone advantages.

Not to mention international call-centre work. However, as call-centre agents, Phils may need to straighten-up and fly right. Not long ago, while in Australia, I was speaking with a phone company agent in Manila, needing to cancel a mobile account.

I was actually looking at my account details online whilst talking with the company agent. Somehow, magically, my contract period left on my account suddenly changed before my eyes, from 2 months to 12 months to go?

Of course this made it considerably more expensive for us to cancel this account. Also of course, the agent denied he changed the contract time period. Hmm, this would NOT happen in an Australian call centre. And of course, zero dealings with the whole company ever since.   

I think I would prefer dealing with an AI computer as a call-centre agent, rather than the Pinoy I encountered.

Such ethics will need to change if the Philippines are to prosper as international call-centre agents anyway.

******There are many points brought up beyond the snippet, which I don't think I could knowledgeably comment on.

One problem I see is country is so discombobulated (thank you google for the spelling).

Manufacturing: The infrastructure cannot be developed for movement of supplies and completed good. Other counties have tollways, turnpikes, interstates, parkways, autobahns, motorways  (pick your name) covering their country or multiple counties like in Europe.
-@Enzyte Bob

Bob, your post is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

******There are many points brought up beyond the snippet, which I don't think I could knowledgeably comment on.

One problem I see is country is so discombobulated (thank you google for the spelling).

Manufacturing: The infrastructure cannot be developed for movement of supplies and completed good. Other counties have tollways, turnpikes, interstates, parkways, autobahns, motorways (pick your name) covering their country or multiple counties like in Europe.
-@Enzyte Bob

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Bob, your post is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
-@Jackson4

**********************************************************

Listen here Whippersnapper if you are Sozzled your Caesars Salad may have Meldrops in it.

******There are many points brought up beyond the snippet, which I don't think I could knowledgeably comment on.

One problem I see is country is so discombobulated (thank you google for the spelling).

Manufacturing: The infrastructure cannot be developed for movement of supplies and completed good. Other counties have tollways, turnpikes, interstates, parkways, autobahns, motorways (pick your name) covering their country or multiple counties like in Europe.
-@Enzyte Bob
***********************************************************
Bob, your post is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
-@Jackson4 **********************************************************

Listen here Whippersnapper if you are Sozzled your Caesars Salad may have Meldrops in it.
-@Enzyte Bob

snip, snip, snip

@PalawOne Regarding climate change, have you done any research to confirm that typhoon seasons here are worse than say 100 years ago? Social media magnifies and sometimes distorts these weather events. Also, Florida, whose worst storm occured in 1936, is regularly hit with hurricanes yet there is plenty of other industry in addition to tourism. For economic development, much could be done to give incentives to foreign investment such as permitting foreign ownership of businesses.

Dan sensibly writes, "@PalawOne Regarding climate change, have you done any research to confirm that typhoon seasons here are worse than say 100 years ago? Social media magnifies and sometimes distorts these weather events. Also, Florida, whose worst storm occured in 1936, is regularly hit with hurricanes yet there is plenty of other industry in addition to tourism. For economic development, much could be done to give incentives to foreign investment such as permitting foreign ownership of businesses. -@danfinn"

`

All good points Dan, thanks. One small thing, one would not know if the Phils typhoon rate was changing, one only meant the historical typhoon rate itself might well be discouraging investment in company buildings, plant and machinery.

And you would seem to make good points in relation to comparisons of Florida and Philippine storm rates and industry growth.

And pleasingly, along the lines of your suggestion, Manila has recently indeed opened up foreign investment, and apparently Marcos also has plans to go further?

"Philippines relaxes rules to woo foreign investment"

Reuters: (Quote) https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-b … 022-03-04/

MANILA, March 4 (Reuters) - Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte approved a law allowing foreign investment in more business sectors, his office said on Friday, in a bid to boost jobs and growth in the Southeast Asian economy.

The law, which amends a three-decade old foreign investment rule, allows for the first time international players to set up and fully own small and medium-sized businesses, and hold 100% equity in firms in sectors where they could already operate.

Previously, foreign investors could only invest in small businesses if they hired at least 50 Filipino workers.

"Foreign investments shall be encouraged in enterprises that significantly expand livelihood and employment opportunities for Filipinos," according to the new law, which was shared with media.

The law halves to $100,000 the minimum capital required to set up a business as long as foreign investors hire at least 15 local workers and introduce advanced technology.

The Philippines has long struggled to lure foreign money because of issues like red tape, weak infrastructure and policy uncertainty, and has lost business to neighbouring countries that offer better tax breaks and lower operational costs.

But the government has made recent efforts to buck this trend. Last year, Duterte lowered the minimum capital requirement for foreign retailers to set up shop in the Philippines.

Another bill, which would allow full foreign ownership of Philippine public services like telecommunications, airlines and domestic shipping firms, is awaiting Duterte's approval.

`

@PalawOne

"I think I would prefer dealing with an AI computer as a call-centre agent, rather than the Pinoy I encountered."

I'm coming to think that too. Usually by the time I call the company I've been through the FAQ's and tried to research as best I can. I'd like to think I've exhausted the obvious choices. In the event the contact agent works for the company I have issues with, then there's a higher probability that they'll be product knowledgeable and have some decision-making capacity. On the other hand, to be diverted to a third-party, overworked agent whose first language clearly isn't English, and is working off a response algorithm... sometimes defeats the purpose.

AI is okay when there isn't a vicious loop that directs you back to first menu choices - that's just nasty.

I guess I'm just old-fashioned and prefer good old face-to-face human contact.

@manwonder Why should a foreigner invest if most of his profit is eaten up by local, regional and above bureaucrats have to be included in expneses?

@manwonder Why should a foreigner invest if most of his profit is eaten up by local, regional and above bureaucrats have to be included in expneses?
-@Glen Adkins

Yes....That's in part (2) of our wish list....we have not come to that part as yet.

Glen sensibly writes, "Why should a foreigner invest if most of his profit is eaten up by local, regional and above bureaucrats have to be included in expenses?

`

As wonderman notes, see part (2) then will be part (3) ... "Given all foreigners are screwed, how to make certain that you get the absolute best deals possible, while being royally screwed by the bureaucrats. Do it right, and then you'll own them."

Yes as PalawOne points out....Part (3) would entail with the following warning....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … #xj4y7vzkg

100% it's corruption... The Philippines culture is one of "show".  And people in power here will take take take.... e.i. The Marco's.... Steeling hundreds of millions... and Filipinos still vote the son in...

My little rant. Corruption/opportunism is like in the DNA of the whole society.

A while ago I posted that once we tried to help a young neighbour with potential by sending her to college. We paid the tuition, rent, allowance etc. (I try sometimes to give something back, because we don't go to church or to put anything on the plate). After a year "inday" found a boyfriend and dropped out. The pair recently asked for a business loan and we declined. Visiting Philippines in June/July, the couple completely ignored us.

Update -This week I've had some sweet emails. The pair advised they are having a baby around January 2023, and want us to be "godparents". When I inquired what this meant as far as responsibility goes, this is what I got.

"...being a good model and a good teacher for english so he's good in english😂 and also gift every christmas day its a tradition here in philippines".

To my mind this an attempt at exploitation, and I want to speak my mind. My Filipina wife (whose judgement I respect very much) thinks differently. To her it's an honor to be asked and would cause certain insult if we were to decline. She instead thinks we should accept the role, give token gifts when we're visiting, and avoid causing social ripples with the neighbors by making any point.

It's this complex dance of taking advantage of some, helping others, saving face, and avoiding social friction that I find very hard to get my head around.

@gsturdee Any government corruption here is small potatoes compared to USA politicians and what they do to get elected, how lobbyists essentially write bills that benefit certain people and how people in power manipulate agencies like the IRS to penalize the opposition and use the DOJ, FBI and other taxpayer supported agencies to discredit certain opposition politicians. Industry and politicians work together  for mutual benefit at the expense of the people. As for Philippine traditions, it is in the culture just as it is in the US in many ways, maybe mireso but not intended to take advantage. It's just the way it is. My advice is to listen to your wife; she understands it well.

@danfinn

Thanks, appreciate your take....and I don't expect these traditions will change anytime soon.

Our friend Sturdy writes, "My little rant. Corruption/opportunism is like in the DNA of the whole society .. It's this complex dance of taking advantage of some, helping others, saving face, and avoiding social friction that I find very hard to get my head around. -@gsturdee

`

Yes agree mate, Philippine social & cultural expectations are certainly convoluted and involved. But I know most will agree and including your good -self that, at heart, their culture in one of deep kindness and caring for others.

For another example:

"Kapatid: Marcos must emulate Biden in freeing low-level offenders"

By Marvin Joseph Ang, October 11, 2022 https://ph.news.yahoo.com/kapatid-marco … 18904.html

In order to decongest prison cells and jail facilities in the country, Kapatid, (the network group of families and friends of political prisoners) wants President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. to do what U.S. President Joseph R. Biden Jr. did in mass pardoning inmates who were convicted of possessing marijuana under federal law by also releasing low-level offenders, including the “riders” in political arrests.

Fides Lim, Kapatid’s spokesperson, in a statement, said that the move could significantly reduce the number of inmates in national penitentiaries nationwide.

“A similar move in the Philippines, alongside other steps such as early parole, probation, as well as release on recognizance on humanitarian grounds of very old and very sick inmates, and fast-tracking the release of those who have already served their sentence and are mere ‘riders’ of incidental political arrests could benefit tens of thousands of inmates and considerably ease conditions in severely congested prisons and jails all over the country,” said Lim.

They also said that while the Department of Justice (DOJ) released more than 350 inmates from the national penitentiary last September, and it plans to fast-track the review of cases to be able to release up to 5,000 inmates before the year ends, these still fall short of addressing the problem, as these initiatives do not include the review of cases of “high-risk prisoners,” which automatically excludes political prisoners.

“This is discriminatory and unjust since political prisoners are facing trumped-up cases to begin with and should not even be in jail,” she said, citing the case of 83-year-old Gerardo Dela Peña, dubbed the oldest political prisoner in the country.

“Why include the very elderly in planned releases but shut the door on [Dela Peña] who is turning blind after nearly ten years in prison and is in fact already lined up for release?” Lim added.

During the height of the pandemic in 2020, Kapatid and its members submitted a petition before the Supreme Court to release the sick, elderly, and vulnerable low-level offenders and political prisoners who are at the most risk of contracting the COVID-19 disease, citing as justification what Iran did in 2020 where the Iranian government released at least 70,000 inmates to control the spread of COVID-19 in their prisons.

“Even with the pandemic on the wane, we still don’t know the actual death toll in overcrowded Philippine jails while COVID-19 remains lethal for the most medically vulnerable in jails which can’t even feed nor care for all of them,” she said.

They also argued that the Philippines, according to the data of the World Prison Brief, has the most overcrowded prison system in the world, which is why freeing those that can already be released should be the utmost priority of the administration.

“Philippine jails fail the United Nations minimum standards for food, nutrition and sanitation. Given such subhuman conditions, all possible measures should be taken by the government to decisively address the congestion problem, which should include serious moves similar to US President Biden’s mass pardon initiative,” Lim said.

Inmates sleeping in the open at Quezon City Jail in Manila, Philippines ..

@PalawOne

Cheers Mate!

Yes, at the heart they're a generous, compassionate people, and I've never seen social cohesion and willingness to sacrifice for family as I have in the Philippines. (There is an argument that if there were less corruption, then less sacrifice would be needed).

That image of the prison inmates is pretty compelling. Not comparable, once I accompanied some Australian missionaries to the jail in Cebu. We handed out toiletries and sang some songs, while the inmates sat crowded on the concrete floor behind a wire cage, and seemed very downcast yet appreciative.

If those pardoned for minor offences were freed as the article advocates, then that might alleviate the crowding, the cost burden of detaining them, and return some young men to their families.

gsturdee writes

Update -This week I've had some sweet emails. The pair advised they are having a baby around January 2023, and want us to be "godparents". When I inquired what this meant as far as responsibility goes, this is what I got.

"...being a good model and a good teacher for english so he's good in english😂 and also gift every christmas day its a tradition here in philippines".

Why feel obligated to people who are ungrateful and rude?

Tell them -  no thank you we have enough obligations to our own family. Wish them well and be done with it.

I'd say the writing is on the wall with this pair, don't kid yourself it will be much much more than a token gift at xmas. And when did giving gifts at xmas become a tradition in the PI? Most are happy to have food to share.

Don't  concern yourself with the neighbors, they will move on to something else to gossip about soon enough..

My 2 pesos🙂

@Nightfish

"The writing's on the wall...". Thanks for being direct, you're absolutely right and I'm torn.

My wife thinks it's important to count our blessings. Even though we're aware what they're up to, we should still accommodate them for the sake of her family reputation. It's almost like she has "survivors guilt", that somehow she got out of that situation. For example, I offered to take Analiza to Edinburgh for her birthday for the weekend, and she humbly asked if instead she could send the money to her mother for Old Soul's Day.

It's the opposite mindset of how I was brought up to think, and bewilders me. I've actually asked a couple objective Filipino friends what my scope to avoid is, and they shrug their shoulders and sigh, like god-parenting is an obligation that can't be avoided, almost like a terminal diagnosis.

My Austrian friend was like you.  "Just say NO, simple!", he said just like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I'll probably come up with a hybrid solution that's dutiful but as painless as possible.

This is one area our cultures seem miles apart.

gsturdee posted. . .

My Filipina wife (whose judgement I respect very much) thinks differently. To her it's an honor to be asked and would cause certain insult if we were to decline. She instead thinks we should accept the role, give token gifts when we're visiting, and avoid causing social ripples with the neighbors by making any point.
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I'm married to a Filipina and your wife is correct. What a Godparent is different according to what you were brought up with. Traditionally in the Philippines it is an honor.

Give a P1000 at the Christening and a token gift at Christmas.

@gsturdee  Don't kid yourself... they will ask you the "Godparents" for help with alot... I would not accept based on how they showed their Hearts to be... They see you as $$$ for their child

Good luck gsturdee!

Who was it that said - no good deed goes unpunished?

Or one of my favorites- The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Honor is a two way street, I just can't wrap my mind around rewarding and perpetuating insincere exploitation.

Well, ok, maybe there were some politicians I voted for......

@Wellsfry @EnzyteBob

Cheers gents! This is taking way too much of my headspace, I know.

I'll probably bite the bullet to keep the Mrs happy and send token gifts.

In the unlikely event I have any more babies, I know exactly who I'm going to ask to be godparents.

Omo...Don't always play the "I am the victim card"

How about learning to live within ones means instead of asking for handouts all the time?

I learned to save/pocket money & then learnt to invest wisely every hard earned $ growing up (times were v.tough in the early 70's) which included me taking part time jobs when I was a young teenager. I was neither rich nor born with a silver spoon in my mouth nor did I have any kind of special birthday party cake/presents for that matter.

All I see here is a lot of extravagence when times were "Hollywood" good the need to dress up/talk big/going into debt for purchasing unnecessary/expensive stuff that could have been used wisely or even saved to be used when an urgent need or good opportunity were to arise.

I have not only seen what has been mentioned above but whole families (with many working children) not being even able to afford sending their dead parents to the graveyard for a decent coffin burial all because nobody ever bothered to save up to prepare for a rainy day.

Hear you manwonder, we have been asked 3 to 4 times to be the godparents of a child that I will possibly never meet.

Asked the better half many times,,,,, how many godparents? The best hit 20 and I asked many times why? From my perspective a god parent/s is there for spiritual, cultural and economic growth.

Here? 10 or 20 sets of godparents? Ben advises opportunity.

Cheers, Steve.

Sturdy mate, I just read your first post about God-parenting to my binibini wife. She got cross (uh-oh look out!) and said she felt shame, and it's because they are kids that they would ask you again for money.

She said, in this case, there is no social pressure, it's only if you want to show your genuine love for their child. Whatever you feel is alright, no worries. Be god parents, in which case go to their christening with a small gift of 50p-100p and the same at Xmas if you want. That's plenty. Or don't, it's always entirely up to you and your other half. We are godparents to an Aussie pinoy neighbours kid, whom we give $20 AU birthday presents. And we are godparents to my wife's bestie's kid in Palawan whom we don't give presents, not even as token ones as you propose.

Anyway, she strongly feels that anyone putting pressure on you to be their kid's godparents is most definitely in the wrong. She thinks this is because they're young and don't yet understand Phils social and human kindness.

So, anyway, I'd better go and make her a cuppa and a snack to get her mind off her feelings again. It's an easy fix, but shows what us blokes will go through to help our mates with advice?     

Hmmm. . . . Seems to be a similarity of the women on Filipina Cupid and being asked to be a Godparent. How many Expat "Godparents" does one Godchild need to help support a filipino family?