How do expats live in Colombia as undocumented immigrants?

Yeah you can live in the shadows but you win't be able to travel by Air out if the country maybe walk across to Venezuela and thenvl fly out not sure I know 2 one English and one man from tbe Netherlands that have never returned to tbeir countries in over 20 years so its possible

maybe walk across to Venezuela and thenvl fly out not sure
-@HutchX2020

That is an interesting statement.  I have frequently read that U. S expats can travel to Cuba as tourists because their immigration won't stamp your passport.  So, it seems plausible, although I assume you would need to fly to an intermediary country.

I think you could easily cross between Ecuador and Colombia but unless you had an Ecuadorian visa you would have issues in Ecuador to fly out

The one idea i heard someone discussing is get and Ecuadorian visa(easier?) enter Ecuador by air and then cross the border without stopping, i am not advocating becasue if you get caught i think you could be deported with 6 or 7 years of no entry

@lunamick

Like I mentioned above if you have no desire to return to your country you can live in Colombia without any Visas as long as you get your cards shipped via fedex and such. Just harder to get Insurance, connect Cable internet but that are other ways around it.

@Mr. Barley That is correct. Say to Mexico. Of note you need to not leave any electronic traces such as ATM transactions or credit card transactions; so, it does required planning and of course you would not post any photos or details on social media. You do get a stamp when entering; but, they will stamp a separate piece of paper if you wish. That was several years in the past, not sure if it is still possible. I would imagine so.

lpd

Where can you get a stamp on a piece a paper? Everything is electronic now.

During the "situation" in Cuenca, I was walking home and was passed in the street by an Ecuadorian and big, tall gringo fully masked. Due to his ethnicity, I didn't know he was a gringo until the Ecuadorian started talking to me and explaining the Gringo's problem. Apparently, the Ecuadorian was the manager of the hotel where the Gringo was staying on the east side of Cuenca near the bus terminal.  They had just returned from Banco Internacional in an attempt to open a bank account because the gringo had been blocked by Western Union after six months of using the service to withdraw $500 each month. The gringo told me he didn't have a cedula which immediately made me think he had overstayed his visa.

While I asked if he tried alternatives to Western Union, he said he and his wife were now completely blocked from receiving any wire transfers using any service in Ecuador and he didn't know why.

In any case, this incident made me wonder if he was blocked from the Ecuador's financial system due to the fact he had overstayed his visa, and Ecuador was using this financial tool to flush the expat out of the woodwork.  This seems like an effective way to deal with undocumented expats who depend on their bank accounts in other countries. 

The question is could the Colombian government use this approach at some time in the future?  One way around this situation would be to transfer your funds to a "friend" in Colombia who would then give you the money less a commission, so you can pay your bills. Of course, the Dian tracks all these transfers, and it might put the "friend" under their microscope.

Opinions?

@HutchX2020 not Venezuela ..thats nuts..go illegal in Venezuala and go straight to jail- and there are check stops with police/military every 50 KM along any highway in Venezuela and they check everyone over thouroughly

Ecuador..is the plaace to go and legally..just take a bus or private transport bacjk into and out of Colombia

@lunamick if you dont have an Ecuador visa, you can do it with a 90 day stamp, but have to come in and out evey 90 days..or get it extended to 180 like in Colombia, Still have to cross the border back and forth by land every 90 days.

There is no problems with banks. medicina prepagada, flying inside the country, and probably not with EPS

They wont know your visa and cedula ran out unless you tell them

And the only place they check your passport stamp is at migraciones..and that would be only when you fly international, or if you make an appointent yourself to see the Migracions people

I learned this from the Venaezuelans and general experience

If somehow , through your own stupidity you get caught, it is just a fine..but can be a lot, depending how long they think yo are in the country "illegally"

@Mr. Barley Mr Baily

I was blocked from Fintec cards KOHO, and Wise amongst others,  , plus Xe Transfers

Koho put me on a "Black List" because of too much money going to Colombia and no where else. Some algorithim looks at where you are spending your money. I was cut off , because either they suspected money laundering, or determined I was not a Canadian Resident,(actually, I am for tax purposes). Being a non Canadian resident and having these Fintec cards or money transfer services like Remitly, XE ,and even WU are against Canadian regulations (Fintrac, IIROC)

But they dont tell you why they block you, they have a clause saying they can do it, without a reason because they know "Non resident" or "Money Laundering" accusations could open them up to law suites, because bothe are extremely hard to prove.

I think I am off the Black List Now, as I have gotten othe Fintec cards and use Remitly frequently.

I had a valid visa the whole time. There are no way that Ecuadorean or Colombian migrations are sophisticated enough to be in cahoots with Money Transfer agencies. Wht¿y would they? They want a gringo in the street begging without any means of supporting himself? WU, Wise, XE, Koho make these decisions on their own, based on AI Algorithims. WU probably has something similar.

@Lpdiver You have been listening to Vikingo too much LP You should be living here like a resident, nt an occaisional tourist and you would know the practicality of the situation

You think Dijin/Sijin has any interest in soe petty tourist over staying their visa?

Bank Accounts, ATM withdrawaks, medicina coomeva payments, credit card purchases-Neither DIAN and even less Migracions are interested in the least in tracking "illegals"in  this way, nor have the sophistication to do it

@lunamick I highly doubt they would go to the expense and hassle of deporting you or banning you for several years, unlessyou dint pay the big fine. which starts low and goes up to 4 Million pesosafter 4 months "illegal" time in Colombia.

Hypothetically, if I am a U.S. citizen who is a 20 year undocumented Colombian immigrant who wants to fly to the U.S., can I get an entry stamp on the Ecuadorian side without having a Colombia exit stamp?

By the way, I read a reddit forum thread by someone who overstayed their visa 2 years and wanted to know what his penalty would be. This was the response:

2 years????? What were you thinking???

Anyway, this is what you have to do in order to avoid the fine and deportation. Take a bus to the Colombia-Ecuador border, cross the border and stamp your passport in Ecuador (Not Colombia). Then leave for your home country. If you come back to Colombia, you may be fined for not stamping your passport when leaving (it will be way less than the overstaying fine), but you won't be banned from entering.

@Mr. Barley The point is, you never "over stay" your Visa or passport stamp. You stay your alloted time in Colombia, fly out legally, get your exit stamp, fly into Ecusdor, , get your entrance  stamp, then go by road into Colombia for 85 days, go by road bck to Ecuador, get your Ecuadorian extension, thne go by road back into Colombia.

Until your next 89 days is up, go back to Ecuador and then fly legally to Colombia.

This is a simplification, you could also tie your Ecuador passage up with a trip to the States or wherever else you wanted to go.

The point is, during the time you are in Colombia without an entrance stamp or valid  Visa, you are officially in Ecuador.

OKay, lets think of a worse case situation. You have to get out of Colombia "Right now"..cant it wait two days until you fly to Pasto, take the bus to Quito and fly out of Quito to the US or elsewhere?

I know this sounds bizzarre, and a bit complicated,  but it is not as bizzare and complicated  as the Colombian Visa system is becoming after all these years.

Having an Ecuadorean Visa would make the situation a lot simpler. you could come in and out every 180 days instead of 90.

This brings up the question, Why do they have all those Visa types?  And a bunch of new ones to boot. What is the point? If they are going to make it so complicated, why not just close everything up and be isolated  like North Korea or Venezuela? Or at least just get rid of all visas, and say to everyone "no more than 6 months"

@nico peligro

With this approach of living year-round in Colombia, are you not worried about using your credit/debit cards in Colombia while you are supposedly in Ecuador?

@Mr. Barley I havent got to that stage yet, wont be in the picture for a year and a half (because of my travel plans and you are allowed 6 months in Colombia in a calender year on a tourist stamp), and only if I dont get a visa in the future , or I get sick of doing  this visa process for 4 months a year every year, and I  decide to stay in Colombia and not make my home base in another country.

But if I do decide or it becomes neccessary  to go this route, it wouldnt bother me in the least.There is no way migraciones keeps a tab on cc card purchase. You could always sy you gave it to your wife or GF to make purchases, but that is ridiculous- it would never come up.

Not leary of making bank transfers, having a bank account, paying medicina prepagada either. Can always say it is "for the wife" if some one asks

I was thinking the only time I might have a slight concern is booking hotels, because they keep your pasport or cedula data in case Migrations wants to review it,

Whether they do look at the data and actually check it agaibst  the data base of Movimientos Migratorios I highly doubt it. I highly doubt they spend theiertime checking hotel registers for Illegals.

Next time I am in a hotel I will ask what hey do with the Cedula / Passport and registration data and how often Migraciones looks at it,

During the "illegal" period you could always stay at cash only hotels or posadas..but this is probably over kill

@nico peligro

or I get sick of doing this visa process for 4 months a year every year

There is a separate process for renewing your cédula? And once your visa expires, so does your capacity to use your bank and Colombia based Fintech apps. Basically, the undocumented expat becomes one more person in the cash based economy. And the Dian who tracks electronically ATM withdrawals and cash pickups at bank won't care, as long as you don't exceed the thresholds required for tax filing.

@Mr. Barley no nothing expires unless you.open your trap and tell them

Everything remains the same..

I have been here on just tourist stamps between visas before  and everything is exactly the sama as if I have a visa or cedula.

AS far as beig her illegally( which I have never tried yet) I even talked to a hotel just now and asked what do you do with the registration records and foto copies of passports or cedulas?

" We keep them.on file"

" Does DIAN look at them"

"NO"

"Does Migraciones look at them"?

"yep , once every

2 or 3 years"

" Who are they looking for?"

"People who are here ilegally"

" You mean they go through thousands of records from the last 2 yesrs to see if anyone is illegal?"

She laughed..and shook her ..head.."No, of course not..they are looking for a specific person who they suspect is here illegally"

So in otherwords..if you dont do anything to make them think you are here illegally..like not flying out before your visa or passport stamp expire date you have nothing to worry about.

If you drive across the border  and dont stamp your visa, as far as Ecuador is concerned you are in Ecuador, and as far as Colombia is concerned, you are not in Colombia  so they are not interested.

To me the risk apears insignificant.

@Mr. Barley Dian doesnt care about these things anyway, even for expat residents . All this is just Gringo Chismes.

If they wanted to find out they could get everything from Migraciones, your record Movimientos Migratorioor your foriegn tax return and possibly even bank information from the CRS data base.

But thats a complete different discussion covered on a different previous thread and I dont want to open that can of worms.

In my experience, contact with la policía

may trigger interest by the authorities.

In Popayán, I filed a police report after

moto vandals with stones destroyed my

rear windshield on the highway in a

nighttime raid.

The next day Migraciones showed up at

my hotel at noon and proceeded to

interrogate me at their field office

until they were satisfied that I had a legal visa.

cccmedia

Another time, in Ipiales, Nariño, I backed up

20 feet on a street near my hotel to enter a

parking lot, in order to avoid a trickier but

legal ten-block detour. The police took notice.

The next day some officers showed up at

my hotel desk, again at noon, asking for me.

Apparently, something else came up. They

never knocked on my habitación door, left

the hotel and didn't come back.

cccmedia

@cccmedia i dont drive and never deal with police.

I guess if I was robbed and reportes it to the cops I would be involved, but I still think your case was unique.

I think reporting things to the cops after you are robbed is a waste of time.

Better just to avoid the cops.

Its not just the visa siutation in Colombia, it is the tax on foreign income which could drive someone to consider this. But for the tax thing i know many gringos  and Colombians living in Colombia with assets and income over seas that pay nothing or close to nothing. Not worth the mystery spy border crossing, but it does make for good reading.

@lunamick for me its the Visa and nothing.else.Its been getting more and more stupid every year. I have worked and lived in.many developing countries, but th level of incompetence , laziness and ineptness of the Cancilleria de Colombia is up there with the worst.

Somebody postulated that although the changes in  the Resolution  last October occurred under Duques watch, all the staff ha e been replaced with Petros people.

I can believe it.That would be one explanation.

The tax thing a big facade, espescially for Canadians

The thing about leaving Colombia is I am vested 10 years plus in Medicina Prepagada and getting something.similar.at the same (still high).price at my age would be diffcult.

Thats only one issue.