What annoys you about Brazil?

Every time this topic rises to the top I bite my lip and hold my thoughts. It isn't a case of Thumper's maxim in the kid-film "Bambi," "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all." I actually find it useful to hear what other's find irritating BUT I stop short of contributing because just about every day, as I head off to daily tasks, the very first (of many) irritating things happens and the evil thought comes to mind - I should just write down everything  that happens today that pisses me off. It would probably be a big list and wouldn't make me feel any better.

But then, if I were back in Wisconsin wouldn't I also find myself frustrated by the the so-many-things that just aren't worth paying too much attention too? And having listened to so many Brazilians stateside, with their complaints about those annoying things embedded in American culture that frustrate them.... Well, one can only hope to penetrate "persistent beliefs" and actions or just figure out how to deal with them.

What is annoying is that it takes ME so long to figure out that change is slow and that some times it is in a direction opposite of what my "persistent beliefs" suggest are the more correct trajectory for change.

@Pablo888 - I don't sense hate for gringos. Mostly I find them curious as to why a gringo would choose to live here and mostly I find that they have very stereotypical views of what N American gringos are about (we're all rich, we all love Disney, we all only eat fast-food, we're all law-abiding citizens and so forth).

From what I have gathered from doing my research on the web is that Brazilians hate gringos because gringos think that they can buy anything with money. 

    -@Pablo888

I asked that exact question when I first arrived here, and was told that the locals would welcome me because I could bring investment and jobs. Nothing has chenged since then - I have always found Brazilians to be incredibly welcoming of foreigners (even if they do not understand why we choose to live here!)

11/04/23 From what I have gathered from doing my research on the web is that Brazilians hate gringos because gringos think that they can buy anything with money. 
Is it true that Brazilians value the accumulation of happiness more than the accumulation of wealth?
   

    -@Pablo888

"Hate" is a really strong word.  Aside from some circles on the Far Left -- and not too many even there -- I've never run into or heard of much actual hatred.  I'd describe the general reaction of most Brazilians of all classes of North American strangers (there's a tendency for people to conflate Americans and Canadians, but the Canadians usually set them straight 😉) as an intriguing combination of curiosity, affection, and a certain amount of contempt.  The term "gringo" includes all three, and is not the pejorative term that it is in Mexico.  The contempt comes from Brazilians thinking that they're just a little smarter than most foreigners, and the general transactional nature of Brazilian relationships outside the family.  At its most raw reading, unfamiliar foreigners have the potential of being seen as easy sources of ready cash.  This often -- but not always -- changes as people get to know you as an individual.

Speaking the language makes an enormous difference.  You can actually watch someone's mental calculus about you change if you speak Portuguese to them.  The better the Portuguese, the faster the wheels turn.  Sometimes the change is so abrupt that it's hard not to laugh.

With respect to happiness vs. wealth, no question.  I see this mostly in people of the lower middle class, especially the "New Middle Class", the people who rose from poverty during Lula's first two administrations.  Poor Brazilians often have a ferocious work ethic, and I know a lot of people one generation out of poverty who continue to be strivers.  But I know plenty of others, often in the same families, who have a five days a week, four or five hour a day government job that pays three or four Minimum Salaries a month.  That lets them buy a simple but clean and comfortable government-subsidized apartment and provides food on the table, clothes on their backs, simple furniture and home appliances, lots of family time, and an occasional night out.  They're satisfied with the medical care provided by SUS (which here in Manaus is pretty good), and have a guaranteed pension coming eventually if they show up for work and keep their records clean.  They may do an odd job now and then for a special purchase, but they have more than they ever expected, and they're satisfied enough with it not to stress out to get more.

@sprealestatebroker

I'm just pissed at drug stores because a restaurant that has stood for 40 years in Copacabana sold out their land and building to, guess who ? Another f-ing drug store. My wife and I arrived last year and said let's go to "Bella Blue" for lunch.........and it was gone.

What you describe has happened here twice in my Canadian province. 30 years ago we privatized our version of the state run "Detran" and every entrepreneur thought they would be rich if they opened up a provincial registry (cartorio).........about 5 years later there were about 1/3 the number remaining in operation.

Maconha was legalized in Canada 5 years ago, and the same thing happened. Weed stores were everywhere, and now they are about 1/2 the number, and large corporations own all of them.

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Corruption in Brasil is beneficial to all, because in western G7 countries access to corruption is limited to the elites. In Brasil everyone can participate.........which is why you have "despanchantes" that we have used, as well as the........"num da pra da um jeitinho" phrase.........which comes in handy from time to time.

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I've never felt threatened or marginalized as a gringo in Brasil from day one over 20 years ago. I recognized that I have been seen as a curiosity, etc, but everyone I have interacted with for the most part has been just fine.

Funny stories about assimilation.......

I walked in to a large retail store in Copacabana one day and heard the "frenchista" say in Portuguese to her staff "Quick get Giselle from the back room, we have a gringo on the floor and she can speak English"........to which I busted out in my Rio de Janeiro accented Portugese......."It's OK you can relax, I want to buy XXXXXXX I see you have it here, can you help me ?"

The look on her face was priceless. A 2 minute transaction took 15 minutes as everyone in the store came to talk to me.

I was in Rio Sul shopping buying my 10th or 11th Flamengo jersey and the guy came up to talk to me, looking somewhat nervous. I asked him in Portuguese if I could get a discount for the Flamengo tattoo on my calf, which I showed him, and the same thing happened.

Standing on a street corner of Nossa Senhora in Copacabana and an older lady comes up to me and asks "Where can I find this store"........obviously mistaking me for a local, without thinking I replied "go 2 blocks ahead and turn left, you'll see it".........at that moment I knew I had made it.

.@Pablo888 - I don't sense hate for gringos. Mostly I find them curious as to why a gringo would choose to live here and mostly I find that they have very stereotypical views of what N American gringos are about (we're all rich, we all love Disney, we all only eat fast-food, we're all law-abiding citizens and so forth).        -@mberigan

Thank you for sharing @mberigan. N. American gringos are not exactly carved from a single block and they come in different shapes, sizes, and cultural backgrounds...  I guess that I will make sure to bite my lips too whenever those stereotypical views are being expressed as I understand it is impolite to contradict Brazilians.

@Gasparzinho 777 Wow.  How long did it take you to get to the point of being fully integrated?  Great success stories.

I don't know how to answer that question really, because what/who defines "integrated" ?

If you're talking about language fluency......15 years to where I could process and think totally in Portuguese, without having to translate something into English first, then back into Portuguese in my brain before I spoke........cultural is an ongoing discovery process.

But about 6-7 years ago I finally felt totally secure about going anywhere in Brasil totally alone without assistance.

@Gasparzinho 777, my apologies about the use of this rather unclear word "integrated".  I meant feeling comfortable with the language - which you answered.

6 years - this means that I need to get started asap.

Thank you for the stories. 

There is still hope for newbies like me....

@Peter Itamaraca Nope! Corruption is everywhere but in Brazil it's on another level but one thing you  choose to overlook is the fact that if you are a professional in the USA you can live well, sometimes very well depending. NOT in BRAZIL. let that sink in. Stop Defending the horrific structure of Brazil. It can do better and should. The ELITE have too much money and should pay more.  I lived with and socialized with these people and gained information that non here even know or care about. I do care for these people(the professional people)

@abthree I know for a FACT that these professionals pay 27% on their taxes on a salary of 12k. They don't lie and complain all the time. For a fact. It's insulting for you to assume I'm incorrect. There is one caveat. If you are self-employed you can skirt this 27%(some loophole) but NOT if you work for a company. All FACTS as these people I know all of family, lawyers friends and corrupt friends that know how to get around the bullshit in Brazil but the 27% is not one of them. It's impossible if they work for company.

27% in taxes for a salary of 12k is a travesty. Shame on Brazil.

When we talk about money, please can we specify which currency and parameter is being used?

A figure, for example, of 12k is meaningless - does that refer to US dollars, Canadian dollars GB pounds, euros, Brazilian reais, etc?

When talking about salaries, in the west we talk about a figure as an annual salary; in Brazil it is always referred as a monthly salary. So, again, a salary of 12k is meaningless without staing whether it is a monthly or annual figure.

11/05/23    @abthree I know for a FACT that these professionals pay 27% on their taxes on a salary of 12k. They don't lie and complain all the time. For a fact. It's insulting for you to assume I'm incorrect. There is one caveat. If you are self-employed you can skirt this 27%(some loophole) but NOT if you work for a company. All FACTS as these people I know all of family, lawyers friends and corrupt friends that know how to get around the bullshit in Brazil but the 27% is not one of them. It's impossible if they work for company. 27% in taxes for a salary of 12k is a travesty. Shame on Brazil.         -@expat5000

Please stop.  There are too many people on this forum who know too much about living in Brazil to buy the line you're selling.  Maybe you really DO hang out with a bunch of morons, or maybe your "friends" are having fun by taking advantage of your gullibility  - unfortunately, that would be a pretty Brazilian thing to do, too - or maybe you just misread everything you see in an unfamiliar culture.  Regardless, you're just embarrassing yourself by continuing to double down on such obvious misinformation.

11/05/23    @Gasparzinho 777, my apologies about the use of this rather unclear word "integrated".  I meant feeling comfortable with the language - which you answered.
6 years - this means that I need to get started asap.
Thank you for the stories. 
There is still hope for newbies like me....   

    -@Pablo888

There's absolutely hope, especially if you're serious about your Portuguese:  Brazilians love that, and will bend over backwards to help you.  You'll probably be surprised how quickly you come to navigate the quirks of Brazilian life almost as effortlessly and with as little friction as a Brazilian does.

At that point, remember that feeling Brazilian on the inside doesn't make you look any  more Brazilian on the outside:  China is the only country I've ever been where foreigners are MORE visible than in Brazil.  The Brazilians don't make us constantly aware of the fact, but fitting in doesn't make unsafe places any safer, as more than one expat has unhappily discovered.

Occasionally, the universe, or maybe the orixás,  send you a reminder.  Shortly before the pandemic, my husband and I were in an Uber, and I asked the driver a question.  He turned to my husband and said, "What did he say?  I don't speak English."  My husband answered, "But he asked you in Portuguese."  The driver said, "Oh!", thought for a minute, and answered the question.  He'd heard it.  He'd understood it.  He just hadn't believed his ears. So it goes sometimes. 😂

@Peter Itamaraca 12k reis monthly. Come on you know this.

@abthree Yeah just what I thought. You cant have an adult conversation without personal attacks. Typical of somebody that has no clue. You need to grow up.

I stand by my claims. 27% in taxes for those working at companies. EOM.

At that point, remember that feeling Brazilian on the inside doesn't make you look any  more Brazilian on the outside:  China is the only country I've ever been where foreigners are MORE visible than in Brazil.  The Brazilians don't make us constantly aware of the fact, but fitting in doesn't make unsafe places any safer, as more than one expat has unhappily discovered.
    -@abthree

@abthree, thank you for the reminder that that hoping for something does not necessarily make it happen.  It takes work involved to make it become a reality.

Re: my expat experience in China - Since I am a "banana" Chinese (yellow on the outside and white on the inside), as long as I do not speak, I can blend in - but as soon as I say the first word, I get the foreigner treatment - which is just the opposite as in Brazil.  CAVEAT:  this has been my experience only - not a generalization.

Although I still have family in China, environment, distance and time do play a role in the development of cultural perceptions.

Since language contains so much cultural contextual information, unless I reach the level of proficiency in Portuguese - which is unrealistic for me at present - I will always be an expat there.... and I am fine with that...

    @abthree

EOM.
   

  -@expat5000

I can only hope! 🤣

If you move somewhere and take 2-3 hours of classes with a professional teacher 5 days a week, and then always use the language and watch TV in said language only, you will obtain a passable fluency in 18 months. You're not going to get hired as a brain surgeon, but, you'll be able to talk to one.

I learned Portuguese outside the country using my wife and TV only, with the exception of my 65 trips there where I used the language.......ergo much longer.

Caveat- languages using the standard alphabet. No Russian, Arabic or Asian......that takes longer.

The "Foreign Services Institute" publishes an excellent example of language difficulty and time required to reach certain levels of proficiency. I do not know what ability they construe to each level. For example......

The language categories are as follows:

Category I – Languages that usually require around 24-30 weeks or 600-750 class hours to reach S-3/R-3 proficiency. This group contains languages like French, Spanish, Romanian and Dutch.

Category II - German - Language that requires around 30 weeks in a category of its own.

Category III – Languages that usually require around 36 weeks or 900 hours of instruction to reach S-3/R-3. These languages are slightly more difficult, and this group includes Indonesian and Swahili.

Category IV – Students usually need around 44 weeks or 1100 class hours to reach S-3/R-3. This is the largest group and contains a wide variety of languages, including Russian, Hindi, Tamil, Thai, Vietnamese, Turkish, Finnish and many more. They are described as “hard languages”.

Category V – It usually takes 88 weeks or 2200 hours to reach S-3/R-3 proficiency in these languages. This small group of “super-hard languages” includes Chinese (Mandarin), Cantonese, Japanese, Korean and Arabic.

I used to be fluent in Russian, as it is my family language. I can still read and write the Cyrillic alphabet and sound out words, but, I have no vocabulary anymore. A professional Russian language teacher in our city who has 30 years experience teaching Russian in Moscow and Canada evaluated me, and said I'd need 900  hours. If I had no Cyrillic alphabet knowledge that goes up to 1,100 hours. Russian has a bunch of words for which there is no English equivalent, just like Portuguese.

You can do it. I did........

    Brasil is one of many countries in the world where people could care less about the colonialists language.
You're right on the economic divide part though. My Carioca wife says you are either a crook, connected, or both if you are rich.
   

    -@Gasparzinho 777

Lol. Brazilians do speak "the colonialists language". Were you under the impression that all colonizers spoke English?