Which country is more dangerous - the USA or Brazil?

I’ve lived in Sao Paulo for over a year and I can report that deranged killers aren’t shooting up people in shopping malls, schools, and churches like they are all over the United States. I’d take having my phone stolen from out of my hands on the street to that any day.

11/22/23  @Peter Itamaraca.  When you look at their criteria, their concept of "peacefulness" - which includes items like number of soldiers under arms, weapon sales, and involvement (?) in international conflicts, doesn't seem to align very well with the average expat's notion of  "safety":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Pe … prov=sfla1

Things probably look different to people based in Australia, but if this Index really catches on, I'm glad that I'm not the one with the job of convincing all the Haitian refugees in Brazil that they'd be safer if they went home! 😅

    Well, according to the new Global Peace Index produced by the Institute for Economica and Peace, in 129th place there is Haiti, 130th South Africa, 131st is the USA and 132nd is Brazil... Mexico is 136th, Turkey 147th,
Who would have thought that, according to their measurements, the USA is only fractionally safer than Brazil? Weird...
   

    -@Peter Itamaraca

The purpose of this index is evidently to back a particular agenda as you can easily come to any conclusion based on choosing desired information while ignoring unwanted information from existing data.  What I have not seen is proof that this index is a measure of any generally agreed definition of peace.  It looks like the definition of peace is based on criteria put together by elites and public figures - with obvious bias towards a particular agenda - and not really representing the whole population of the world for example.

It's good that this non-profit is doing some work to quantify something, but applying this skewed ranking. to a whole country based on the criteria set by a few people does not appear to be scientifically - or at the very least - not statistically sound.

As usual, finding correlation in a particular dataset does not indicate causation.

Finally, the attached wikipedia link external links tend to refer to various aspects of the same index and not to one or more possible other interpretation of peace - this is a dead giveaway that this thinktank has its blinders on.

@Peter Itamaraca

When surveys are done, ask 2 questions. 1. Who is paying for it. 2. What and how are the questions asked. I believe you can find crime anywhere if you look in the right places. That being said, random crazy crime and mass shootings are more prevalent in the US.

These comparative ranking evaluations are often eschewed and have a lot of flaws.

Apples and Oranges, Ladies and Gentlemen.

First, as in the US, Brazil is a very large country with several nuances and differences as you explore the Country. 

In Sao Paulo City, and Coastal Cities from Rio up to North, , notable on large metropolitan areas, and with several honorable exceptions, you will find cities with higher than average crime rates, mostly towards petty crime. 

In Southern prosperous parts, nary a crime takes place. That's hinterland in Parana, Santa Catarina, Minas Gerais, Goias, Rio Grande do Sul, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Rio Grande do Norte, and many other States. 

Just as in America, you have tight knit communities with little to no crime. And runaway burglary, retail robbery running rampant in America's largest metro regions.

Which tells me, most Americans are caught off guard with the crime spree, while Brazilians within large cities have grown used to this trend and made adjustments. 

Sao Paulo ain't Johanesburg. And for those who ciaim being singled out, about 10% of South Africa's GDP  is spent on the private security industry. 

if you are looking to spot safer Brazilian Hamlets, may i suggest....

Brasil Visto de Cima - aired nights, on Cable TV on TV Brasil Channel

Loads of You Tube  channels. Some are lame, some are fairly decent.

Here's one....  "Minha Pequena Revolução "( a young traveling Brazilian Couple, good for those getting the feet wet on language skills, lots of small towns, mostly on Southern States. They look like a cute chipmunk couple )

"Matheus Boa Sorte"   He does a lot of traveling through Minas Gerais, Goias, and Northeast States. Sound language skills with a tinge of regional accent.

Toss those rankings in the garbage. They are useless.

Brazil is more dangerous than the USA for violent crime. I don't know what the Global Peace Index measures but if you want intentional homicide rates (per 100k population) Brazil has a rate more than 3 times higher (there are numerous sources). Drug trafficking, corruption and domestic violence ..... the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, publishes "International Statistics On Crime and Justice."

Sample of homicide data:

https://homicide.igarape.org.br/

@mberigan, the site has a good representation of data collected so far.  This method would work if countries would report the crimes in a similar fashion and transparently.  I don't think that all the countries represented in the UN do that.

Like sprealestatebroker mentioned, apples and bananas...

@mberigan I have to disagree. While I do not have a copy of the "International Statistics On Crime and Justice.", I do have a particular set of technological skills which through NewsOn app connects me to 175 tv station news broadcasts all over the USA, alerts for the top tv stations in the DMV, very frequent emails from Neighborhood News (our local "i see a suspicious person in my neighborhood" connection, provides me with instant information of almost every crime that happens in my former home town and anything that is happening in any major city in the USA. This is not statistics, this is real time.

To watch over my daughter who still lives in MD. and who just purchased a Hyundai SUV I was able to tell her about a Kia break-in at Kings Farm spurred on by Tik Tok`s Kia Boyz who have a virtual challenge to carjack Kia's and Hyundai's because of a manufacturers defect. She did not know and now has a wheel lock for her vehicle. I was also able to let her know that two of her former colleagues at Top Golf in Germantown where shot by a patron who did not want to leave at closing time.

I was not able to help my daughter stay safe because of some printed statistics. Assuming those statistics do not mention my small village in North eastern Brazil, you can let them know that we live in a very friendly neighborhood where no one even raises their voice in anger. Hope this does not skew their data.

Roddie in Retirement

I ignore most stats like these, simply because they are commonly agenda driven to some extent.

How I feel on the ground is what drives my perception about anything.

30 people are shot per day in greater Rio de Janeiro (not killed, just shot) yet, I feel safer here than I have in most major American cities. And, FWIW I've been to about 30 of the main US ones that would qualify.

This is not statistics, this is real time.

Roddie in Retirement-@roddiesho

@mberigan, I tend to agree with @roddiesho here - the best way to achieve local safety is to get to as close to real time as possible.  Imagine if the authorities / people can detect criminal activity with great accuracy, this would be the best deterrent and possibly the best way to develop mitigations.

The only problem here is that this can also be used by the bad guys.  So you need to stay within the fence where the good guys are.

In the end, the issue here about crime is to avoid the areas where the bad guys operate.

@Peter Itamaraca, @mberigan Sad to say that a tourist was killed and several injured in Paris France, near the Eiffel Tower.

Roddie in Retirement

@roddiesho, sad to say but Paris has always been a dangerous place.  Beautiful but become more and more dangerous.  There are more groups with extremist views in France than before and Paris is the typical place where demonstrations will gather the most publicity.

Everyone needs to be extremely vigilant even there.

    Brazil is more dangerous than the USA for violent crime. I don't know what the Global Peace Index measures but if you want intentional homicide rates (per 100k population) Brazil has a rate more than 3 times higher (there are numerous sources). Drug trafficking, corruption and domestic violence ..... the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, publishes "International Statistics On Crime and Justice."
Sample of homicide data:
https://homicide.igarape.org.br/-@mberigan

Well, we have our fair share of sociopaths.....

If you are on a holdup, and have nothing to give, they will shoot you. 

The late fad is people washing your windwishield on traffic lights and spraying acid on you if you don't kick up . 

And people passing to be from the utility company to invade your residence.   

I had my nearby vacant home burglarized twice so they can score a few faucets for dope money. Police, in both cases, showed up within 10 min from my call. 

We do not have deranged people going postal, and going on a rampage shooting in schools or malls, true to be told.  What we have, and it hits us every now and then, a wave of petty crime from people who have nothing to lose or fear. 

if you are an expat, the way it suits you, is that you have to learn this reality to make your own adjustments. 

    @Peter Itamaraca, @mberigan Sad to say that a tourist was killed and several injured in Paris France, near the Eiffel Tower.
Roddie in Retirement-@roddiesho

I was in sleepy, small little Medford Oregon, USA last week, (population 85k. Over the two-day weekend, they had three separate parking lot murders.

I have to admit though that back in 2010 or 2011, my Brazilian wife and I (we are both medical missionaries) were speaking in the Santa Cruz area of Rio and the local drug dealer sent a message that he wanted to see us (to pray for his sick mother). We met him in the street where he had duffle bags full of drugs and men and very young boys with automatic weapons walking around as protection. I can't imagine that scenario, in total, happening in the US although I freely admit the drug problem is very bad there as well.

If you are on a holdup, and have nothing to give, they will shoot you.  The late fad is people washing your windwishield on traffic lights and spraying acid on you if you don't kick up .  And people passing to be from the utility company to invade your residence.   I had my nearby vacant home burglarized twice so they can score a few faucets for dope money. Police, in both cases, showed up within 10 min from my call.      -@sprealestatebroker

This all occurs in varying degrees from city to city in North America as well.

Where I lived, a city of 1.5MM peeps, copper pipe was the prime target at construction sites, catalytic converters from vehicles are ripped out with a hand held "sawzall" tool in 30 seconds or less, everywhere you park if you are unlucky.

The window washers don't spray you with acid, they are just rude, but, disgruntled husbands from a certain part of the world spray their spouses with acid to disfigure their faces instead, etc, or families kill their kids for dishonoring them, etc.

The utility scam is good for casing a potential robbery here as well.

More people were killed close to my DT condo here over drug deals than in Copa.........5 x 0 actually.......

    I have to admit though that back in 2010 or 2011, my Brazilian wife and I (we are both medical missionaries) were speaking in the Santa Cruz area of Rio and the local drug dealer sent a message that he wanted to see us (to pray for his sick mother). We met him in the street where he had duffle bags full of drugs and men and very young boys with automatic weapons walking around as protection. I can't imagine that scenario, in total, happening in the US although I freely admit the drug problem is very bad there as well.
   

    -@Brazil Bill

I love numbers, a lot.   So, some fun facts

I have had a home in Oregon, USA, since 1989. Despite my retiring to Brazil, I have kept my Oregon home, and often still work there

To have a CHL, Concealed Handgun License, in Oregon, one must be over 21 years of age, without any felony convictions, stalking orders, certain arrests, and a host of other issues. The population in Oregon over the age of 21, the legal age for a CHL, is about 2,429,348 people. Currently, Oregon has about 15,871 felons who cannot get a CHL.

So, for fun, let's say about 2.5 million people are eligible for a CHL. Oregon has issued more than 311,000 active concealed carry permits, with 71% of permits held by men, (August 2022).  So, about 12.5% of the legal population of Oregon have a Concealed Handgun License, I have and have carried concealed for 35 years. In addition to that, open carry is 100% legal in Oregon and in most of the rural areas in the state, a common sight.

Food for thought, if you are shopping in a store there with say 100 customers, 13 of those shoppers are legally carrying a handgun, concealed. You would also see a couple of people opening carrying handguns during that same store shopping, I sometimes do. In Oregon, I still teach for fun, pre-med science mostly. When on campus, I carry, and always have, as do most of the faculty I know. When I begin a class with say 35 students, I already know at least 4 of my students are carrying a concealed handgun.

@rraypo My bucket list of places i want to visit is getting smaller and smaller.

@rraypo That is horrifying!  Why do you carry the gun and have you ever used it? 

12/06/23    @rraypo My bucket list of places i want to visit is getting smaller and smaller.-@roddiesho

On the plus side, your chances of living to see what's left just improved.

@Brazil Bill Oh I was with you until the end. I am guessing you have not been to the USA lately or get USA news. I get everything, but if you only can get one source I would recommend the NewsON mobile app. It will connect you with 175 different television newscasts from almost every state in the USA.

In the brazen category I will nominate the kid just arrested for car jacking an FBI Agent's car with all his gear in it. Their was an FBI manhunt for him the last couple of days in the DC Metro area. Not to be confused with the one killed who was trying to carjack the Secret Service car of the agent assigned to the Presidents daughter. On Capitol Hill alone there have been several Senate and House members and staff who have been carjacked at gunpoint.   Of course before that 72 people were arrested in Philadelphia for a mass store looting event. Besides you are talking about the country where hundred's attacked and invaded the capitol.

Roddie in Retirement

P.S. So sorry for that incident. That is horrible.

@rraypo One of my favorite quotes has always been Mike Tyson's "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" I agree with those who are against it, but nowadays if I am at Walmart etc. in the USA and one of these mass killers comes along I hope you and your Concealed Weapon are in the crowd.

Roddie in Retirement

    @rraypo That is horrifying!  Why do you carry the gun and have you ever used it? 
   

    -@Droplover

Cultural differences. Where I live part-time in Oregon, we don't have school or theater shootings, street robberies, gas station hold-ups are non-exisistant, no bank robberies, no one steals ATM machines, no car hijackings, no snatch and grabs in traffic, etc. You will see this is true just about anywhere when a high percentage of honest people are armed. I'm not condoning it, i'm just a numbers guy.

    @rraypo My bucket list of places i want to visit is getting smaller and smaller.-@roddiesho

Why? The violent crime numbers are much lower as result.

    @rraypo One of my favorite quotes has always been Mike Tyson's "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" I agree with those who are against it, but nowadays if I am at Walmart etc. in the USA and one of these mass killers comes along I hope you and your Concealed Weapon are in the crowd.
Roddie in Retirement-@roddiesho

That's exactly the point! Thank you, I hope that I am not there when it happens, but if I am, I wouldn't run off. I got my first license in 1990, since then, been licensed in 37 states.

@rraypo, given what is happening on university campuses - like what happened in UNLV yesterday, it is good that you got the license. 

I also like the course that you need to take in order to get the license - very informative and it also teaches about the legal aspect of owning a gun. 

Most people do not know that legal gun owners are way safer than illegal ones.

In the US, one of the main causes (apart from crime) of gun violence and death is mental illness.  More work needs to be done in this area.

BTW, is your license accepted in Brazil?  Or do you need to take another license?

Bolsonaro legalized private ownership of firearms (one of the few good things that he actually did) and Lula nixed it.

So, at present, no. IIRC.

So, at present, no. IIRC.
   

    -@Gasparzinho 777

So how is gun ownership legal in Brazil?  For example, if you have a license in US and take the usual safety precautions with guns (declaring to the authorities, gun locks and separate ammunition and in check-in luggage transport), will the gun be taken away at the border - even if you have all the permits and documentation?

@rraypo, any info about that?

Personally, I generally feel safe, yet wary depending upon the place and people, in both the US and Brazil. In the US the only city I used to conceal carry in was DC but there were other places at times like San Antonio, TX.

I did find it unique that, in the above story I told, the main dealer only wanted us to pray for his mother. I fully realize it could have been to kidnap us, etc. The only thing I hoped was that the police did not decide to raid at that time as as we would have been caught in the crossfire.

In the city, I think it is a tie as to which is more dangerous but in the country I generally don't worry at all (except for the onças and cobras). 😜

    So, at present, no. IIRC.        -@Gasparzinho 777

So how is gun ownership legal in Brazil?  For example, if you have a license in US and take the usual safety precautions with guns (declaring to the authorities, gun locks and separate ammunition and in check-in luggage transport), will the gun be taken away at the border - even if you have all the permits and documentation?
@rraypo, any info about that?
   

    -@Pablo888

No, you cannot bring a gun from the US, and your US license will count for nothing here, I have been advised. The Federal Police grant gun licenses, but never to open carry as an ordinary citizen, and it requires a course and justification. Being employed as a security guard is one way round this, but there are many checks and courses, and you must have Brazilian citizenship. Much harder to achieve than in the US, but probably, illegally, just as easy!