Expat opinion, English language skills, increasing or otherwise?

And to think that English is the second language for Filipinos.

             I noticed that most Filipinos do not read anything that is not online in any language.  It would be helpful to encourage recreational reading in any and all languages.  I was recently disappointed by the two book stores in Vigan, few, terrible selections of books.

Col Rutabaga said. . . .Here is a post to put you to sleep.
    (Writer's opinion .. maybe depends upon age?)
"In Philippines, falling English standards spark calls for film, TV dubbing ban"

The call comes after international studies show many Philippine students fare poorly in English reading comprehension and speaking skills

Philippine educators say more needs to be done as having strong English language skills is key to the country’s economic competitiveness

By Sam Beltran, 4th March 2024
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3254002/philippines-falling-english-standards-spark-calls-film-tv-dubbing-ban


As concerns mount in the Philippines over the declining standards of English proficiency among its students, and in turn the country’s economic competitiveness, one lawmaker aims to reverse the trend with a novel proposal: banning Filipino dubbing of English-language films and TV shows.

In a bill introduced on February 19, Negros Occidental Representative Jose Francisco Benitez noted that several international studies showed many Philippine students were struggling with advanced-level English reading comprehension and speaking skills.

“To address this, we must enhance learning delivery to enable the [skilled] acquisition of English as a second language [ESL] … Mass media can enable children to develop English proficiency,” according to Benitez’s bill.

His proposal calls for a fine against film and TV content providers for dubbing English programmes, but they are still required to include Filipino subtitles.

While some educators believe a dubbing ban could be helpful, it is not enough to tackle the cause behind the falling English-language capabilities of Philippine students.

“Using subtitles as opposed to dubbing in English films and TV programmes could be significant in enhancing English proficiency,” said Salve Calderon, who teaches English to junior and senior high school students at Bataan National High School in the city of Balanga.

Having strong English language skills is important for the Philippine economy, particularly in the key business process outsourcing or call centre sector, Calderon said.

“However, it [the dubbing ban] may not directly address the main causes behind falling English language skills,” she told This Week in Asia.

The veteran teacher said she has observed a decline in English proficiency among students at all levels. Even older students who have studied the language for years are facing difficulties in understanding more advanced-level English content.

Her assessment is attested by the findings of several international education studies.

According to the 2022 International Student Assessment (PISA) of 81 countries, released last December, the Philippines was ranked the sixth lowest in reading comprehension with no significant improvement in this area since it was first assessed in the 2018 PISA study.

PISA is a programme conducted by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) that tests students between the ages of 15 years and 3 months and 16 years and 2 months on basic academic skills.

While the study is based on each country’s local language, English is used in assessing the Philippines because it is one of the country’s two official languages alongside Filipino.

English is the official language of instruction after Grade 4 and is used in all education materials, which means a lack of English proficiency can affect a student’s performance in every subject.

“Many students don’t even try to speak the language. It is important for us to face up to this problem because almost all school subjects are taught in English,” Calderon said, noting that some students even faked illness to avoid speaking English in class.

Shirley Napana, a senior maths teacher at Lamao National High School in Bataan, observed that her students can read English text but have poor comprehension skills, which she attributed to their lack of interest in the written word.

“I think social media contributes to this since students tend to spend most of their time doing TikTok dances, taking or browsing through pictures or following their idols online. They even prefer foreign languages they don’t understand, such as Korean, because they idolise [K-pop celebrities],” Napana said.

Baguio City Representative Mark Go, who co-chairs a national commission tasked to evaluate the education sector, said English reading comprehension and conversational speaking involved two different sets of skills, and Philippine students excelled in the latter.

He cited a survey released last year that showed the Philippines ranked 20th out of 113 countries and second in Asia after Singapore for English proficiency. The survey by Education First, a Swiss international education company, evaluates the countries on reading comprehension, listening and speaking skills.

Last year, the Philippine government announced an overhaul of the education system including changes to the K to Grade 10 levels of the K to 12 basic curriculum. The changes will take effect in stages from August to 2028.

Some critics, however, say more needs to be done as shown in the country’s poor performance in international studies such as PISA. Go said that the problem is not the curriculum but its implementation.

“Our teachers continue to lack the necessary resources like a lack of textbooks due to procurement issues, particularly the ones in government schools. They also are not adequately trained to implement the programme,” he told This Week in Asia.

The disruptions to schools during the pandemic further aggravated the problem, Go added.

In a bid to tackle poor English proficiency, the Philippine authorities introduced the Catch-Up Fridays programme in January. Under the programme, activities to improve the reading and comprehension skills of students are held on the last day of each school week.

Students are encouraged to read at their own pace on Catch-Up Fridays as teachers monitor their progress.

“We strongly believe that our students’ abilities to read in English will be vastly improved through this programme, and it will help foster a culture of reading, which is very essential to their overall performance,” Calderon said.

Napana agreed that the aim of the programme is laudable but said it is an additional burden for teachers who are already struggling with multiple responsibilities.

She said the welfare of teachers should also be improved such as providing more training for them, reducing their workload and raising their salaries in tandem with the implementation of the programme.

“We are on the battle front lines. Proper treatment will fuel our passion in this profession even more,” she said.

Go acknowledged the importance of developing a pool of competent teachers and school leaders to help achieve the country’s educational goals. Training all 800,000 teachers in the Philippines is impractical so a localised approach is more feasible, he added.

He cited the example of a project piloted by him in Baguio City to improve the learning skills of students through the training of principals and school superintendents in 67 public schools under the guidance of the country’s educational experts. After receiving training, the school officials will impart their knowledge to teachers for follow-up implementation.

If successful, the project would be expanded to other cities and provinces, Go said.

On Benitez’s proposed dubbing ban, Go said television and films are a good starting point to help students improve their English language skills.

“But this must be reinforced by interventions in schools to help students read better and understand the connections between dialogue and subtitles. This will make reading more impactful for Filipinos,” Go said.

--
   

    -@Col Rootentoot

Agree Bob, literature to send your kids to sleep at night but what's new with toot toot toot.

I fell asleep myself by the second paragraph.

Cheers, Steve.

Mugteck writes,   "I noticed that most Filipinos do not read anything that is not online in any language.  It would be helpful to encourage recreational reading in any and all languages.  I was recently disappointed by the two book stores in Vigan, few, terrible selections of books." -@mugteck

`

Agree Mugteck. And my wife, a school teacher in the Philippines for a decade, and now teaches in Australia, completely agrees with you. She says that not many Philippine people read any hard-copy text at all, in any language, and even fewer of their children will now read anything.

And a decade or so ago, the government removed their requirements for all media to broadcast in English. I guess this was good for retaining older cultural-traditions, but is obviously a backward step in world terms. Now we're reaping the results.

My wife relates that school teaching in the Philippines involves a huge amount of hours doing time-wasting administrative work. This is as well as normal syllabus preparation and actual teaching. Direct instruction of reading skills takes time, but really is the best way.

So, unless the Phils government make such changes as now proposed, it could well result in younger people have virtually zero exposure to English, both as spoken and written.

For everyone's sake, we hope now making it illegal to audio-dub English language television programs into Tagalog as proposed can and should reverse this trend somewhat.

Also, of course, we English-speaking expats will be able to watch lots more TV

Cheers ppl

`

@Col RootentootHis proposal calls for a fine against film and TV content providers for dubbing English programmes, but they are still required to include Filipino subtitles.

While some educators believe a dubbing ban could be helpful, it is not enough to tackle the cause behind the falling English-language capabilities of Philippine students.

First, your post is much too long. You are posting an entire article. Second, you offer no opinion. Do you have an opinion on this?

Historically, when all of Ireland was under English rule the Crown made a law that Gaelic could no longer be spoken there, only English. Penalties were severe. The law was highly successful and decades after Ireland became independent, 98% still speak only English while only a few "Gaeltalk" regions around Dingle Bay still exist. Had Gaelic survived, the culture would have remained intact as with other countries who speak languages similar to Gaelic, (i.e.  not related to English), such as  Finland, Hungary or the Slavic countries who enjoy economic success just the same.

To make a law forbidding Filipino dubbing of English movies is insane. Not only would this alienate the large contingent of millennial nationalists here who undoubtedly would consider this a reimposition of the colonial past, people who wish to improve their chances on the global job market are free to learn it, and, most textbooks are not available in Filipino so English is taught by default anyway. Americans would consider such a ban a violation of freedom of speech. Yes, I get what they are saying but the result will simply be that masses of English people cannot enjoy Western movies.

.

`

Mate, this new proposed law says that Phils media will NOT be able to dub programs that are in English into Tagalog.  They must leave the programs in English. And one would agree.

So we agree, and that's what I've said above. We are, and always were, of the same opinion.   

Cheers, Dan

Philippines Considers Dubbing Ban to Improve English Proficiency

• The Philippines is facing declining English proficiency among its students, affecting the country's economic competitiveness, especially in the business process outsourcing sector.

• A lawmaker proposed a ban on Filipino dubbing of English-language films and TV shows to enhance English learning.

• While some educators support the idea, they believe it may not directly address the root causes of the issue.

• Challenges include students' lack of interest in reading, distractions from social media, and inadequate teacher resources and training.

• The government introduced the Catch-Up Fridays program to improve reading skills, but teachers feel burdened by additional

My new cell phone with ai summarized that long ass I'll never read article in about 3 seconds.

Apologies for accidentally chopping a little off the end.

    `
Mate, this new proposed law says that Phils media will NOT be able to dub programs that are in English into Tagalog.  They must leave the programs in English. And one would agree.
So we agree, and that's what I've said above. We are, and always were, of the same opinion.   

Cheers, Dan
   

    -@Col Rootentoot

I said: "To make a law forbidding Filipino dubbing of English movies is insane."

You said: "Mate, this new proposed law says that Phils media will NOT be able to dub programs that are in English into Tagalog".

So, what are you saying? We are in violent agreement? 😂

@Larry Fisher ..

Yes fella .. and, its a direct quote from the South China Morning Post. They are usually a no-nonsense and a fairly concise broadsheet. But didn't want to summarise for the picky readers here. Also the use of AI is forbidden here, haha be careful. Haha. All good, mate.

So, what are you saying? We are in violent agreement? 😂
   
    -@danfinn

Yes, and have to say, 'tis normal between yourself and moi.

All good matey.

`

@Col Rootentoot

I didn't use the ai there. I used it here. Which isn't there.  So I hear, it's ok here. But obviously not there.

About the topic:

Many Filipinos are very shy to use English for fear of mispronounced words and someone laughing.  Sad really, because those Filipinos that would laugh will find themselves in the same position 5 mins later.

The other thing I've noticed. Every damn kid above 9 has a cell phone stuck to their face. And they ain't reading. They're watching videos. Be it TikTok or something else.  Schools need to use books. With written tests and oral readings by the students imo. Written reports, on paper. Not sent in via email and pdf. This teaches proper writing skills, and reading comprehension. And maybe even some penmanship.

    @Col Rootentoot
I didn't use the ai there. I used it here. Which isn't there.  So I hear, it's ok here. But obviously not there.


    -@Larry Fisher et al

When using AI on a public forum in any capacity, there is a strong possibility one may run into data protected by copyright, require attribution or other protections. The TandC of expat.com says nothing specific about the use of artificial intelligence per se, but:

1. The TandC clearly state that you own whatever you publish, and you are publishing globally. Using AI may result in unattributed data that requires attribution and/or is copyrighted. The AI user (forum member) is soley responsible for such global publications.
2. The TandC clearly states that the legal aspects of the website (inc forum) are subject to the laws of the Republic of Mauritius. It should be known that, despite it being a small African nation Mauritius is one of the few developing nations with a mature set of regulations and codes involving AI. Obviously, the forum TandC require that these national regulations not be violated.

To me this means, do not involve AI in any aspect of communication on this forum.

Also Dan/readers instead of simply copying and pasting War and Peace and wasting space here simply give a brief description on the subject/passion and post a link to the news source, if the reader is interested they can pursue instead of falling asleep.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve

To me this means, do not involve AI in any aspect of communication on this forum.        -@danfinn

`

Dan man speak truth

Also thinking maybe with  speech-to-text-to-AI  then who needs to write?

And sure Phils kids will love their Tagalog-to-English-to-AI  phone versions.

happy trails

    Also Dan/readers instead of simply copying and pasting War and Peace and wasting space here simply give a brief description on the subject/passion and post a link to the news source, if the reader is interested they can pursue instead of falling asleep.
OMO.

Cheers, Steve
   

    -@bigpearl

War and Peace 😂.

Just a thought but surely a lot of filipinos who sing Karaoke will have to read the English words on the screen since English spoken songs are also popular there.

One more thing - I hope for all our sakes that they do not broadcast the popular English comedy programme Allo Allo there because if they stopped using subtitles for that we would all be greeted in the morning by Officer Crabtree's pathetic attempts to speak English and the words (Good Moaning). Other things you might here may include - I have bad nose, when you ribbed the bonk there was a wetness. He has drawn poctures of the sispocts.

For those who do not understand please Google Officer Crabtree quotes from the series.

It would be like trying to decipher Coach 53's ramblings again.

• A lawmaker proposed a ban on Filipino dubbing of English-language films and TV shows to enhance English learning.

  .  .  .

What a waste of time. The politician need to put in his place. Patiotism anyone? Is he ashamed of his own country? I would expect the politician to ban Chinese/Korean dubbing of English-language films in the Philippines.

English is one of the two official languages of the Philippines. We are adopting our nephew who is 3 years old and speaks English very well. People who hear him talk use the term "slang" to describe his pronunciation meaning he does not have a Filipino accent.

All the legal paperwork I've been involved with is in English. Car registration, driver's license, visas, adoption documents to name a few have all been written in English. 

    English is one of the two official languages of the Philippines. We are adopting our nephew who is 3 years old and speaks English very well. People who hear him talk use the term "slang" to describe his pronunciation meaning he does not have a Filipino accent.
All the legal paperwork I've been involved with is in English. Car registration, driver's license, visas, adoption documents to name a few have all been written in English. 
   

-@Moon Dog

Here in Dumaguete, Silliman University (American accredited, a good University) insists on English only. They have a high school section and all over that campus there are signs saying "speak English only". Still, a fellow expat's son attended that high school and being from the US did not speak Visayan (Cebuano), which is btw another official language. Anyway, his classmates were rather mean and made fun of his lack of Cebuano skills so he just learned it in his own and today speaks it perfectly.

@danfinn

Cebuano and Waray are the languages spoken in my area. Cebuano is a major language, but not an official language.

"There are two official languages in the Philippines—Filipino and English. Filipino which is based on Tagalog, is the national language. English is also widely used and is the medium of instruction in higher education. There are also eight (8) major languages spoken by majority of the Filipinos: Tagalog, Cebuano, Ilocano, Hiligaynon or Ilonggo, Bicol, Waray, Kapampangan, and Pangasinense."

And the other 76 dialects? Most speak Tagalog or English if needed as the national 2 languages but for me I get confused/misunderstand knowing some Tagalog and Ilocano (there are differences even there) but other Dialects I am lost.

Cheers, Steve.

    And the other 76 dialects? Most speak Tagalog or English if needed as the national 2 languages but for me I get confused/misunderstand knowing some Tagalog and Ilocano (there are differences even there) but other Dialects I am lost.
Cheers, Steve.
   

    -@bigpearl

Cebuano or Visayan or Bisayan is spoken throughput the Visayas in Central Philippines and also much of Mindanao. It is said that there are more Cebuano speakers than Tagalog but Tagalog is more important because it covers the Capital government region in Luzon. We did have a few Presidents who were Cebuano speakers, namely Duterte and Gloria Arroyo so I always thought it was a draw as to which of those two were the most important. People born in Luzon speak mostly Tagalog and almost never need to speak Visayan but people born in the Visayas often need to learn Tagalog which they sometimes call Filipino, a mishmash of mostly Tagalog and Cebuano, disliked by Visayans (who prefer Cebuano) and ignored by Tagalog speakers. Filipino was introduced by Marcos Sr as part of his nationalistic program creating the new Filipino Man. Filipino is learned in school and it seems quickly forgotten in the Visayas once school is over. In my case I have been around Cebuano speakers for the last 37 years and I actually speak it to some extent but not real fluently. About half of the words are the same as Tagalog and as I said, Tagalog speakers will not bother to understand Cebuano but many Visayans reluctantly give in to learning Tagalog because, for example, their new job in Manila demands it or perhaps they watch Filipino movies and soap operas that are usually in Tagalog although there is a popular Mexican one in Spanish which they seem to kind of understand. Illocano is a strange one that neither Tagalog or Cebuano speakers understand but it is major and it is an official language. Same apparently is true with Waray which I know zero about and finally we have the Spanish dielect in Southern Mindanao. I remember in the US in Florida hearing a Cuban and a Filipino Zamboanga Spanish speaker conversing and they understood each other completely although officially Zamboanga Spanish had several differences to Castilian or American Spanish. It too is an official language. I am missing one, the language of Bacolod and Iloilo who speak Illongo which I cannot understand either. The only one I know is Cebuano but I could never pass a test in that language for citizenship...for that I would need to use English which as stated is an official language.

`

Interesting discussion of languages chaps.

Also I guess we should note that languages spoken in regions apparently can be fluid and changeable. For example, being from the tiny island chain of Cuyo my wife is multi-lingual, speaking Cuyonon, Tagalog and also English. 

Wikipedia says .. "Cuyonon is a regional Bisayan language spoken on the coast of Palawan and the Cuyo Islands in the Philippines. Cuyonon had been the lingua franca (language used for communication) of the province of Palawan until recently, when being the Phils "new frontier" migration flow into the region rapidly increased. 

Forty-three percent of the total population of Palawan during the late 1980s spoke and used Cuyonon as a language. Recent studies show a significant decrease in numbers of speakers due to a significant increase of Tagalog-speaking immigrants from Luzon."

Wondering, does his/her and he/she non-differentiation arise in all dialects?

Btw, I think it's wonderful for a culture not to note gender in their languages.

Imho all world languages should be the same, so all of us are simply people?

happy  trails

Cuyonon is a Cebuano dialect. From below, many of the words are the same, many are slightly different. For example, "maayong" in Bisayan Cebuano becomes "mayad" or "good" in English. "Amping" in Bisayan becomes "amblig' or be careful in English. Nothing much has been written in cuyonon except for the New Testament in 1982. I think this is a dieing language with only 125000 speakers in Palawan (as I read), being replaced by Tagalog. Too bad it's not being replaced by Cebuano, a more beautiful, softer sounding language than Tagalog. Tagalog is the "German" of the Philippines, notable for its harsh "ah" sounds and Cebuano is the "French".

English    Cuyonon

Welcome    Malipayeng pagabot!

Hello (General greeting)    Komosta?

How are you?    Komosta?

Komosta imong pagkabetang?

Reply to 'How are you?'    Mayad da

Long time no see    Bago kita reman agbagatan

What's your name?    Anono imong aran?

My name is ...    Ako si ...

Where are you from?    Taga sadin kaw?

I'm from ...    Ako taga ...

Taga ... ako

Pleased to meet you    Alilipay ako nga akilala ta kaw

Good morning

(Morning greeting)    Mayad nga timprano

Good afternoon

(Afternoon greeting)    Mayad nga apon

Good evening

(Evening greeting)    Mayad nga gabi

Good night    Mayad nga sirem ("Good dusk")

Goodbye

(Parting phrases)    Adios

Amblig (Be careful)

Good luck!    Soirtien ka ra andan!

Have a nice day    Mayad nga adlaw kanimo!

Bon appetit /

Have a nice meal    Amos!

Makaen kita!

Bon voyage /

Have a good journey    Maambeng nga pagbiahi!

Yes    E'en

No    Beken

Maybe    Saben

I don't know    Ilam

Do you understand?    Aintindian mo?

    `


Imho all world languages should be the same, so all of us are simply people?

Blame Nimrod and the Tower of Babel   

    -@Col Rootentoot

          Speaking of different languages, was wonering if the name Rootentoot comes from the Threee Stooges take on ancient Egypt, as they explored the tomb of King Rootentooten and Queen Hotsytotsy.

              Speaking of different languages, was wonering if the name Rootentoot comes from the Threee Stooges take on ancient Egypt, as they explored the tomb of King Rootentooten and Queen Hotsytotsy.
   

    -@mugteck

Here is the Oxford English dictionary definition of this whimsical American, wild west term:

rootin’-tootin’ adjective

/ˌruːtɪn ˈtuːtɪn/

[only before noun] (North American English, informal)

​enthusiastic, cheerful and lively

Word Origin

late 19th cent.: reduplication of rooting in the sense ‘inquisitive’, an early dialect sense of the compound.

It is unusual for any nose-in-the-air Australian or European to soil their ID with such an American term.

              Speaking of different languages, was wonering if the name Rootentoot comes from the Threee Stooges take on ancient Egypt, as they explored the tomb of King Rootentooten and Queen Hotsytotsy.        -@mugteck

`

Haha M.T... could be, but primarily one was impressed with the Stephen Colbert Show mention of "Colonel Rootentoot's Natural Male Enhancement" at his 3.00 minute mark in 2019 ..

https://www.facebook.com/colbertlateshow/videos/672191859964398/

`

@Col Rootentoot Steven Colbert, I actually remember the days when the material of comedians like Colbert was actually funny. All of that changed after a certain person was elected; liberals lost their sense of humor and watching their "comedy" became a but dreary because it is hard to be funny while being politically correct at the same time. Liberal "comedians" never actually recovered from the years between 2016 and 2020. Now, the 3 stooges...they were funny.

     Liberal "comedians" never actually recovered from the years between 2016 and 2020.
   

    -@danfinn

No one has recovered from those years.

         Liberal "comedians" never actually recovered from the years between 2016 and 2020.         -@danfinn

No one has recovered from those years.
   

    -@mugteck

If the senile boobster succeeds in leading us into TN war, will it matter? Thank God for elections.

They can pass all the laws they want, it will not be successful.

1. If English is not used at home, it's a waste of time.
2. If the child's playmates do not converse in English it's a waste of time.
3. Curriculum's differs Cities vs. Provinces
4. Class size differs Public vs. Private
5. Teaching a language as Supplement vs. Primary
6. The age of instruction should start from the beginning of the child's education.

    They can pass all the laws they want, it will not be successful.If English is not used at home, it's a waste of time.If the child's playmates do not converse in English it's a waste of time.Curriculum's differs Cities vs. ProvincesClass size differs Public vs. PrivateTeaching a language as Supplement vs. Primary The age of instruction should start from the beginning of the child's education.    -@Enzyte Bob

Agree completely Bob.

And soon, free government Tagalog (etc) and English translation phone apps.

Also free government provided & Philippine-specific citizen & expat AI services.

happy trails

@Col Rootentoot If they don't understand the way you teach, then teach the way they will understand.

Lack of competency in English may be due to a number of factors including the way the language is taught. How up-to-date is the teaching process? The way we take on information and use it has changed. If the English curriculum has not changed in the last 10 years then I would suggest it is out-of-date

@mugteck What about Esperanto?

    @mugteck What about Esperanto?
   

    -@Gezzar

Spoken by as many as 2,000,000 people, just people trying to reverse the Tower of Babel, not gonna happen.

        @mugteck What about Esperanto?        -@Gezzar

Spoken by as many as 2,000,000 people, just people trying to reverse the Tower of Babel, not gonna happen.
   

    -@mugteck

2,000,000 people? I saw that figure too but I also read that only 1000 people speak it as a first language including one notable, George Soros. So if I pick up a few phrases and speak it, I can be one of the 2,000,000. As an American I know that many non-yanks hate this but: *English has become the default international language that Esperanto was intended to be. I know the Euros hate the idea, especially the French but English has become the default international language for many reasons, one being that the language is so tolerant of screwed up grammar, misspellings and all sorts of errors; I don't know why but no matter how poorly it is spoken you can usually figure out what people are trying to say. This is not true of any other language that I am aware of, certainly not Tagalog or bisaya.

Ah lets not go into the tower of Babel, that's all new stuff in history written by whom? Prophesized by whom? Documented by whom thousands of years after it was supposed to have occurred for what reason? While I don't know the date of the biblical old testament scriptures but recent in history and when the notions surfaced? Why? Control? I think the Australian indigenous collective have a good laugh at such crap as would many cultures around the world that have been communicating for 50/60 thousand years before Babel came into the equation, As for the topic, What Asian country can we as English speaking unlearned people visit/live in and still communicate with the locals, Good or bad we make it work as my Tagalog is crap.

As for doing away with dubbing foreign languages? How's that going to go over with the wealthy media magnates losing viewers? Typical of underreacting looking for quick fixes.

12 years ago when we lived in Manila we never had Cignal or choices, local tv only, my favourite show was Vice Ganda as mostly Taglish and learnt much while reading between the lines and many ;laughs. If a government in any country wants English as a second language it has to start in the education system n further more at home within the living environment, Bens Neice in her mid teens rarely spoke to me except for a yes or no, I questioned Ben and her grandmother on this (Bens mum) and they both admitted she was shy to me for fear of bad grammar or mis pronunciation as well as accent, Funny I listened to her talking in English at a distance while she was chatting with others and perfect, many years on we communicate in English very well and she is a darling that was simply shy. She/ the family watch Korean/European movies that are dubbed in English. Education.

OMO.

Cheers, Steve.