Please bribe traffic police in small notes, no VND100,000!

I can't believe that they are actually going through with this stupid ordinance.  I heard it being discussed about a year ago, gave my 2 cents and just let it go.  I didn't think people would be that naive.

Until nepotism stops and agencies pay their people the proper salaries, corruption will persist.  Such fictitious laws will only make matters worst.  What a shenanigan this is!!!  The rest of the world is going get a real good laugh...

Howie

...or maybe a traffic "accident". 

"They" don't like being criticised by outsiders J, you know that.  You should delete the posts!

Wild_1 wrote:

I can't believe that they are actually going through with this stupid ordinance.  I heard it being discussed about a year ago, gave my 2 cents and just let it go.  I didn't think people would be that naive.

Until nepotism stops and agencies pay their people the proper salaries, corruption will persist.  Such fictitious laws will only make matters worst.  What a shenanigan this is!!!  The rest of the world is going get a real good laugh...

Howie

Until 5 years ago, when the government mandated a 13% increase for everyone except government employees I was dead against bribes - especially a jerk who stopped all cars at a traffic circle in Vinh. I refused and spent the night sleeping in the truck until the cop went off duty.

Since then, I don't mind paying bribes, if I broke a law. I have been to a couple of cops homes, one an immigration officer and the other a traffic cop.

They sure didn't look rich judging from the state of their furniture or the general state of their houses.

So now I don't begrudge giving them a little something if I did wrong. Whenever a CGST guy gives me a hand in collecting damage following an accident, I always pay him 10% (after adding it to the actual damage cost).

Jaitch,

WideAwake has a point.  I don't know how it is with Canadian laws.  But, with the American laws, it is illegal for us to bribe a foreign official.  Are you aware of that?  No!  We do not bribe, we only donate, man!  I only contribute to the charity of the people's choice.  Anyways, too much of such chatters can land us all in hot waters.

Howie

Definitely  concur with Howie on his last line. We’ve all been here quite awhile, own business, our  homes, played in traffic, ect: ect:. We know what the deal is, and ya know it’s better sometimes not talking about it. Just roll with the punches. Why do you think none  of the Vietnamese have chimed in on either of the posts? Chill guys, were still foreigners here.

Wild_1 wrote:

Jaitch,

WideAwake has a point.  I don't know how it is with Canadian laws.  But, with the American laws, it is illegal for us to bribe a foreign official.  Are you aware of that?  No!  We do not bribe, we only donate, man!  I only contribute to the charity of the people's choice.  Anyways, too much of such chatters can land us all in hot waters.

Howie

Three sections of the Canadian Criminal Code apply:
Soliciting a bribe; Offering a bribe and giving/accepting a bribe.

Most of the road police are fairly hinest, they seem to get dirty when they become detectives and higher.

Budman1 wrote:

Definitely  concur with Howie on his last line. We’ve all been here quite awhile, own business, our  homes, played in traffic, ect: ect:. We know what the deal is, and ya know it’s better sometimes not talking about it. Just roll with the punches. Why do you think none  of the Vietnamese have chimed in on either of the posts? Chill guys, were still foreigners here.

I disagree. Even as Foreigners we get hit for bribes.

1. A few years ago the Security Ministry issued a memo to officers that stated that no police personnel should ask Foreigners;

2. Our 'hosts' talk about it openly, the Prime Minister spoke about it in speeches, the TP HCM CGST issued a statement about is and it was sent to all registered news sites. I have 7 copies of it.

3. VietNam can never achieve first class world status as long as bribery exists;

4. It is not illegal to discuss the subject of corruption;

5. Only  VN registered web sites have to to the unspoken rules of the press;

6. The subject of corrupt police have been featured on TV and in newspapers.

The reason the chief engineer of the HCMC East-West Highway is in jail is because of bribery and the news releases that came out of the government was like spam.

The problem is that it's a case of do what I say, not what I do. I see HCMC blue tags all over the Highlands on weekends, with city drivers, so you can't tell me they are official business.

The other side of the coin is that the city does look after it's people, it's not as if they are suffering as a result of bribery.

Jaitch,

But, you are an American citizen too, are you not?  As for me, I am an American citizen; and I do have a certain respect for American laws.  Afterall, I don't think that they were adopted to hinder me.

As for Vietnam, I will do what needs to be done.  But, I keep things close to the vest, though.  I don't pay much attention to the media here; for it is controlled.  And, I definitely don't buy much into what people here say; because deception is standard practice.  Why do you think I turned to you guys about my phone thing, I could have easily walked into a local vendor and ask (I do speak Vietnamese pretty well)?

As for corruption, it exists in every country, in every society.  Sure, one is more pervasive than the other.  But that is because one's system of deterrence is more compromised than that of the other.  As outsiders, we should not comment on it too much.  That would be just like Don Quixote attactking those windmills.

Howie

This is one of the only times in my life that you'll here me say "Washington can do my talking for me.".

Most people back home don't like foreigners talking bad about America, even if they are working there legally AND paying taxes.  Now we find ourselves in the same situatuion compunded by the fact that...uhhh...a few of us ARE AMERICANS!  I told a German to bug off(or something like that)40 years after WW2, when he insulted the US. In this country I'M the German!  I try hard to keep my criticism to a minimum for that reason, among others.

Wild_1 wrote:

Jaitch,
... As for Vietnam, I will do what needs to be done.  But, I keep things close to the vest, though.  I don't pay much attention to the media here; for it is controlled.  And, I definitely don't buy much into what people here say; because deception is standard practice.  Why do you think I turned to you guys about my phone thing, I could have easily walked into a local vendor and ask (I do speak Vietnamese pretty well)? ...
Howie

I agree that the media is 'controlled', I even go along with the rules, my employees know the limits.

The fact that a 'controlled' media discusses, without fear of retribution, and repeatedly it means that it is an OK subject to talk about.

In China the subject is taboo. Discussing the police openly is really taboo. It is this that makes VietNam such a great place, they discuss their weaknesses and rather than pretend they don't happen, they talk about them.

When I first came to VietNam residents had to report contact with Foreigners to authorities, on my first trips out of HCMC I had Internal Security escorts, even to places like Da Lat. (It had good points, too, we could always find a hotel room and always get a rail ticket.)

The national government of VietNam is smart, as are many provinces and they understand their goals - it's just a little rough getting there.

I don't think the VN government sees Foreigners (foreign elements) as bad, for if they did you would soon find out! You don't have 'minders' watching you in class, you aren't given subjects not to be discussed.

As one person said, he feels more free in this country than in his home country of the States. We all know what the governments here know about us, because we supplied it.

In the U.S. there is little freedom with the homeland Security reading all your messages, listening to all your telephone calls, even having (and using) the ability to have credit card usage displayed on government computer screens!

And Facebook, it's a pipeline for the US government.

We enjoy freedom in VN and freedom includes the ability to talk about the good, the bad and the evil with fear of the door being kicked down.