I'm moving to Bucharest.

Hey Vincent,

I reckon you should have stuck to your (naked) guns and chosen Brasov or Sibiu, especially if you can work anywhere you like.

I'll think you'll do fine in Bucharest. The internet speed is really very fast (not bad for a bunch of 'barbarians', right?) and when it comes to the 'net, Romania is the land of the Jolly Roger.

Bucharestites can be a bit dour, rude, and unhelpful at times, but you're from Paris and have lived in London, so you should be well equipped to deal with that.

You won't have problems making Romanian friends and it doesn't hurt to make a few expats friends too (expats, and even tourists, are real people too, not just for Xmas) because the expats often have info and insights that come in handy, especially regarding legalities, residence certificates, and so on.

Good luck and have fun!

Too bad you only want to hang out with Romanians. Non Romanians in Romania are good people too. Anywho, I'll make a point of staying away if we ever happen to be in the same place at the same time.

Go ahead! rcs-rds have optical fiber for internet,but be sure that they have it on the area you're living.

Thanks for the replies! Much appreciated!

Lindochka wrote:

Too bad you only want to hang out with Romanians. Non Romanians in Romania are good people too. Anywho, I'll make a point of staying away if we ever happen to be in the same place at the same time.

Maykal wrote:

You won't have problems making Romanian friends and it doesn't hurt to make a few expats friends too (expats, and even tourists, are real people too, not just for Xmas) because the expats often have info and insights that come in handy, especially regarding legalities, residence certificates, and so on.

But... but...

Well, I think you guys must have taken my words a little too literally... or maybe I'm making too much of an azz of myself! One or the other. I mean, I haven't even set foot in Romania, yet I'm already talking to expats!!


I'm not going to go out of my way to avoid expats, what I meant to say was that I really wanna hang out Romanian people. I guess I just wanted to emphasise the fact that I intend to embrace the local culture. One of the reasons I wanna go there is to change the way I live my life.

But you're right Maykal, expats are a good source of information when you're just starting out in a foreign country. Oh and Lindochka, it would be an honour to share a drink with you!!!

Maykal wrote:

Hey Vincent,
I reckon you should have stuck to your (naked) guns and chosen Brasov or Sibiu, especially if you can work anywhere you like.

You think? Aren't these places a little too small to live there permanently? I still have the opportunity to do that if I feel like it but I thought Bucharest was a better place to start up in Romania. And I will of course visit Sibiu and Brasov, in fact, alongside Constanta and the Black Sea, those are the first places I intend to visit.

In any case, and I'm not really planning that far ahead, but if everything goes well, I hope to spend several years in Eastern Europe (other crazy plans include spending 6 months traveling along the entire Croatian coast, from Italy to Montenegro, probably in 2013, and maybe settling in Dubrovnik for a few months.)

Maykal wrote:

Bucharestites can be a bit dour, rude, and unhelpful at times, but you're from Paris and have lived in London, so you should be well equipped to deal with that.

Yeah I've been told to beware of many scammers and other parasites cos I'm the kind of guy who likes to start conversations with total strangers on the street. Yeah I'm a bit of a wacko! A girl I know in Bucharest told me "oh no don't do your normal "spiel" over here, you'll get into trouble!" In fact I laughed when she advised me not to open my mouth in public for the entire first month so that no one notices I'm a foreigner. Haha!! I'm afraid that's gonna be technically impossible, even if I try, sooner or later I'm gonna blow my cover by being me!! But hey I do take a lot of precaution, as you should if you're inclined to do stuff like that! Sounds a bit dishonest to admit it but, while I do like to be friendly to random people on the street, I'm aware that they're never really my friends.

Maykal wrote:

I'll think you'll do fine in Bucharest. The internet speed is really very fast (not bad for a bunch of 'barbarians', right?) and when it comes to the 'net, Romania is the land of the Jolly Roger.

dantrinca wrote:

Go ahead! rcs-rds have optical fiber for internet,but be sure that they have it on the area you're living.

Yeah I was wondering about that. From what I've heard, internet connections are quite good in Bucharest. rcs-rds is indeed what people have recommended me.

Do you know how long it takes for my internet to be up and running in my new flat?

And is there a place I can turn up with a laptop to get a wireless signal? Something like a cafe where I can sit down for hours and be connected to the internet.



Oh and I've been told that the Romana area is full of red bulinas (the boy has done his homework!!) Is that true? What areas of Central Bucharest do you guys like? And which ones would you avoid? Are most of the blocks rough looking in the center?


And again, thanks ever so much for your help.


Vincent

Hi,

Regarding where to live, I don't think Brasov or Sibiu are too small. They have pretty big populations and all the mod cons. Perhaps stick with your plan, stay here in Bucharest for a year, check out the other cities, and then move. Brasov might be good - it has a small but friendly expat community, the locals are friendlier than in the capital, and you have the mountains close at had and the fantastic Saxon Transylvania area just to the north. But yes, perhaps start with Buch, learn to hate it, and move on before you end up liking it!

Yeah I've been told to beware of many scammers and other parasites

You don't have to be paranoid, but it helps to keep an open mind. Not everyone who'll befriend you here has your best interests at heart, as your Romanian friend rightly pointed out. You'll get what I call 'expat groupies': people who just want to hang out with expats before they think it makes them look cool and sophisticated. Then there are those who think that knowing expats will further their careers. There are also those who think you're rich (all westerners are rich, right? ) and want to persuade you to go into some kind of business with them by which you'll end up doing all the work and investing all the money, and they'll share half of the profits. You'll find a lot of these on the expat forums offering you flats to rent (at double the normal price of course!). The ones who are actually out to steal from you are quite rare, but do exist. Then of course there is the good old honey trap...

I moved here from Turkey, where I had got used to the Turkish way of life, so I was used to striking up conversations with strangers, chatting to shop keepers, and so on. I acted the same when I first got here, but soon stopped. If you talk to people here without a genuine reason, they look at you like you're either going to rob them or rape them. Now I just keep to myself and walk around with a mean-looking 'don't mess with me' scowl on my face like the rest of the residents (yep...8 years in Bucharest )

Do you know how long it takes for my internet to be up and running in my new flat?

Depends. If you are renting, there's a good chance the flat will already have internet up and running. Alternatively, you might have the cables in place, but need to have it turned on, which will require going to the ISP with the landlord and signing a contract. I have a feeling that one of the ISPs allows tenants to sign the contract now, which saves time. Worst case scenario is that the flat has no cables, but I think that's unlikely unless you're renting in some really cheap and dodgy area.

And is there a place I can turn up with a laptop to get a wireless signal? Something like a cafe where I can sit down for hours and be connected to the internet.

Loads of bars and cafes have wireless, especially in the old town or the centre. No problem there.

Oh and I've been told that the Romana area is full of red bulinas (the boy has done his homework!!) Is that true? What areas of Central Bucharest do you guys like? And which ones would you avoid? Are most of the blocks rough looking in the center?

Hard to say that one area has good or bad buildings. Along one street you might have a red-dotted 1900s villa next to a modern office block, next to a 1970 monolithic residential block, next to some fancy modern flats. It's really a patchwork of many different styles - neo-classical, Brancovensesc, Baroque, Rococo, Hausmanneque, art-deco, high-communist, and modern. Whether they have a red dot depends on the age, and on how successfully the owner has managed to paint over it.

If I were you I would get somewhere semi-central and close to a metro station. The public transport is cheap and regular and although the metro doesn't have full coverage yet, it's fast and easy to use. Central rents can be 2 or 3 times more and you can get to the centre from a well-situated semi-central flat in no more than 30 mins door-to-door in most cases. Perhaps looks at places like Tineretului, Titan, Berceni. Iancului, or Dristor. You'll find a one-bedroom flat in those areas for around 250-400 Euro per month, or less for a studio flat.

If you have more money than that for rent, then maybe look at central areas. Just north of Romana you have the Piata Victoria/Herastrau/Primaverii area - more upmarket and expensive (up to and beyond 1000 Euro/month) or down south in the Unirii area (maybe more like 500-800 Euro/month).

Of course, everywhere you go you'll find an estate agent will to rent you out a flat for as much money as you want to spend, so be careful and check the going rates.

And again, thanks ever so much for your help.

No worries, good luck!

Lol I was taking the piss, dude.
First drink's on you.

Wow thanks again Maykal for this very comprehensive reply. You're the Grand Poobah of the Romanian section of expatblog, I can tell!! Haha! No seriously, amazing stuff! Thanks a lot!

I booked my flight to Bucharest last week and I'm leaving in a couple of days, on Thursday, so this is no longer in the planning phase. It's real this time! Flying Lufthansa, not quite ready to trust Romanian low cost airlines, in fact I only trust the Germans with my life! Have you guys tried BlueAir? Obviously if you have, there is one good news, you've lived to tell the tale!


I am filled with a mix of excitement and apprehension since I couldn't stand my old life but have no idea what to expect. Well at least I did tons of research on Romania but strangely enough I've decided to move to a place where I have never set foot in my life! In fact I'm surprised I didn't reconsider since, when you mention moving to Bucharest, everyone do their best to dissuade you: It's terrible, it's ugly, don't go there etc... But one thing I've learned in life is that, when you're motivated, a lot of the bad things become secondary.

Maykal wrote:

Hi,
...and you can get to the centre from a well-situated semi-central flat in no more than 30 mins door-to-door in most cases. Perhaps looks at places like Tineretului, Titan, Berceni. Iancului, or Dristor. You'll find a one-bedroom flat in those areas for around 250-400 Euro per month, or less for a studio flat.

I've got a few nights booked on my arrival and will go flat hunting as soon as I get there. I think I will follow everyone's advice and target the Dristor/Titan/Vitan area. It seems everyone I talk to recommend this area as being the best value for money. "Around 250-400 Euro per month" for a one bedroom flat you said? So it means this place is overpriced:

http://www.anuntul.ro/anunturi-imobilia … 22138.html

but this one isn't:

http://www.anuntul.ro/anunturi-imobilia … 25463.html

Has anyone used this site? Oh and how do you pay your landlord at the signing of the contract when you don't have local cheques? Any nasty surprises in rental contracts or tenancy agreements?

Lindochka wrote:

Lol I was taking the piss, dude.
First drink's on you.

I was too, except in Britain, I prefer to "take the Mickey!"

Hey Vincent,

Prices vary a lot here so you can ask one guy and he'll sell something to you for 100 Euro and the next guy will happily sell you the same thing for 50. Same with wages, same with everything. Both flats look similar to me so just go and visit them both and see which location/block you like best. Personally I'd say 500 is a little on the high side for that area but 370 is ok. If you haven't already read it, there's a good thread on cost of living just below this one. Read Mark_W's last post about checking the 'intretinere' list in the block's lobby. It's good advice.

Generally speaking, when you sign a contract with the landlord or the estate agent, you'll have to pay the first month's rent and a couple of months' rent as a deposit (sometimes it's one month, sometimes three - again, depends). You'll also have to pay the agent if it's the case - often 50% of one month's rent, but again, depends. (Get used to hearing 'depends' here).

I flew Blue Air to Paris and didn't have any problems. Only thing is that it flies to Paris Beauvais, which is about as much as Paris airport as London-Luton is a London airport (i.e. not). However, the times were convenient and the price was a lot less.

It's always good to research. When I first moved over here there was virtually no information on the net and it was really hard to work things out in advance, which is partly why I try to help people out here. I just turned up with a bag of books and a bag of clothes, didn't know a soul, had nowhere to live, just went with it at first to see what'd happen. Best mistake I've made in my life.

Je te dis merde!

Last one is still a little bit overpriced.
You pay cash and you can or can't have a written contract. Anyway, the contract is not valid until declared at the fiscal authorities. Of course, having it "declared" might increase the price a little bit.
Since the 2 flats come from agencies, expect to pay them comission ( in terms of 1 month rental, in general ). Better call them beforehand to get an idea.
Expect to prepay for at least 2 months ( the first and the last, as usual ).
Better get a room for a week ot two ( perhaps with airbnb or someone listed here ( including me ) and make your research from Bucharest.

Hey thanks for the relies Maykal and callincard, I arrived in Bucharest on Thursday night and spent my first full day yesterday. I will post more when I have time.

This place is a mess!!! I love it already!!!!


Vincent

[moderated]

We'll be waiting !
A.

Hey guys,

Ahhh what a week!!! I've been walking around the southern part of the city (I'm near Universitate at the moment), mainly for the purpose of visiting apartments. I've been doing everything on foot aside from a couple of metro rides (I almost took the wrong line, I could have ended up in Pantelimon!!) I can kind of understand where the Bucharest critics are coming from. The city has a lot of imposing blocks and I've noticed that in every city where people use A/C, there are these ugly boxes hanging around everywhere. But the old city is quite nice and you often stumble across very nice old buildings that look completely out of place.

As expected, the traffic is insane, the cigarettes are cheap, the weather is continental (the atmosphere feels heavy like in Asia or on the East coast of the US but I'm slowly getting used to it) and the ladies are HOT (been on more dates in 10 days than I have in 10 years, haha!). I've already got lost in the city a couple of times (got badly lost in the 1 Decembrie area), made a fool of myself speaking Romanian multiple times, smoked weed with some hippies and invited myself to a party. I even tried to chat this uber-cute 20 year old blonde sitting on a bench in Vitan, she must have thought LOL tourist!! Also I've got serious trouble finding tea!! I believe Romanians do not drink tea. The closest thing I found was some fruit tea which I haven't tried yet.

I'm probably gonna make a decision on apartments in the next few days. I noticed that Decebal is a fairly fancy area, I visited a few apartments there and they all looked pretty classy. One of them I liked for 450, in particular cos it had a bunch of balconies overlooking Piata Alba Iulia but the agent wanted 1+2 in rent and 1 month commission. But I might go for one at 500, a little bigger and he's OK with 1+1 and half a month commission. This place looks OK too in the same area:

http://www.anuntul.ro/anunturi-imobilia … 86875.html

Does that look good to you guys?

Ahh I also stumbled across one of Maykal's post on the Bucharest expats meet-ups and ended up googling them. I might end up attending one or two. There goes my plan to look like a Romanian!!!

OK guys back to the flat hunting and the poker. I hope that girl calls too, she said she would but hey, as always with these things, it's...



Vincent

Decebal area is ok. Vitan mall is close, Muncii met station just down the road, 104 to Unirii for nights out in the old town. A few bars and shops on your doorstep. If you're ok with the price of the apartment and the hideous decor then go for it.

What's wrong with Pantelimon?

Maykal wrote:

If you're ok with the price of the apartment and the hideous decor then go for it.

I'm never OK with the prices unless they're close to zero!!

Ya don't like the colour of the furnishing. I though the purple was fun!!

Maykal wrote:

What's wrong with Pantelimon?

WikiTravel says not to go and because I'm a smart guy, I believe everything the politicans say, everything I see on TV and everything I read on WikiTravel!



That fruity herbal tea I bought reminds me of the stuff my ex used to drink. Awful!!

I live in Pantelimon. It's not a pretty area, but it's nothing compared to some of the neighbourhoods in London or other UK cities.

Best to buy your own tea and make it at home. You can get regular black tea in most supermarkets and there is a Twinnings in Vitan mall if you want something more exotic. There's also a small tea shop in the old town selling loose leaf teas.

Some bars and cafes have regular tea - you have to ask for 'ceai negru' here otherwise you'll get some sickly 'fruits of the forest' infusion. Even if you manage to order black tea it tends to either be overstewed by the time it reaches the table, or has been shown the merest glance of a teabag. Quite often I've ended up with an oversweet cup of milk which has had a teabag dragged through it quickly. Stick to coffee when you're in town, make the tea at home.

Maykal wrote:

I live in Pantelimon. It's not a pretty area, but it's nothing compared to some of the neighbourhoods in London or other UK cities.

Ha! Didn't wanna hurt you in your Pantelimon pride. And you're probably right, I've seen council estates in Paris and London and I can't imagine there being anything worse in the entire universe! Although, sadly, there probably is.

Maykal wrote:

some sickly 'fruits of the forest' infusion.

I found and apartment and I'm thinking about taking it however I'm not sure I like the contract. But then again, I usually don't like contracts unless they favour me. I was wondering if you guys had an opinion about the rental contract I was presented with.

What happened is that I went to see the flat, I liked it and phoned the agent back the next day. He said OK, let's arrange a time and date with the landlord (which is tomorrow afternoon) and we'll sign the lease. Today I got a call from the agent and he said he had received the contract from the landlord (it's in Romanian). He asked me: "Do you know a Romanian person that you can trust so you can read it together and see if it's OK?" I said yes, send it over and I will read it with my friend here. I showed her the contract and she didn't really like it. Neither did I but hey what do I know?

There's a bit about the owner being able to inspect the property once a month, which is kind of weird but hey I keep things in good order so I don't really care that much.

There is a penalty of 1% a day if you are late with your payment. Again I don't like being told that I will be punished but hey I can pay the rent on time so, again, that's probably not a huge problem since it probably won't happen.

But the term that is a bigger problem reads:

Incetarea contractului de inchiriere la initiativa Chiriasului inainte de expirarea  perioadei contractuale se va face printr-o notificare scrisa cu 30 zile inaintea expirarii si in urma platii contravalorii a jumatate din cuantumul chiriei pentru perioada reziliata.

which I Google translated as:

Lease termination at the initiative of Tenant before the expiration of the contract will be made by written notice 30 days before expiration and after paying the equivalent of half the amount of rent for the period terminated.

That sound a bit extreme to me. Is that term standard in rental contracts? The girl who read the contract with me looked for a template online and sent me a contract that didn't have that clause.

Now it's one thing to lose your deposit cos you left before the end of the term and your landlord is pissed off that you did that, it's quite another to be liable for thousands of euros because you terminate the contract earlier. For all intents and purposes, this clause means you cannot terminate the contract unless it's relatively close to the end of it. Also I've never seen anything that extreme in contracts of at least 3 different European countries where I've seen standard rental agreements. Sure those were the UK, France and Germany but still.

So am I being picky here or is this condition not acceptable. I'm willing to stay in the apartment for the duration of the contract and that means committing myself to staying in Bucharest for an entire year but I wanna have a reasonable exit strategy if things don't go well. What if I have to leave because of an emergency? What if I discover something bad in the flat like it's collapsing, cockroach infested or there are monsters in the cupboard. I'm exaggerating here but you know what I'm trying to say.

I will try to negotiate with them tomorrow in order to have that clause removed or amended but I was wondering if that was standard anyway and I would be presented with the same clause anywhere else.

Any ideas?

Oh and as always, thanks a lot for your help.


Vincent

Oh and I just found a post by a Bucharest estate agent on a website dealing with the Romanian property market:

http://www.romanianpropertynews.co.uk/about/

"An early termination is easy. It requires only a one month notice to either the landlord or the tenant. Most landlords are individuals, and standard rental terms and conditions are favorable for a tenant."

That's not what my contract says and it's certainly not favourable to the tenant.


Vincent

The first two points, the 1% late-payment penalty and the allowing of access to check the state of the property, are fine in my opinion. When I rented here I had those in my contract too and I think they are fair enough (I'd want the same if I were a landlord).

The second one, however, seems outrageous to me. I've also looked at a few standard contracts online and couldn't find one with that clause. The law actually states that the contract can be terminated by the tenant with 60 days' notice, but makes no mention of paying any amount of the remaining period. Personally, I wouldn't sign that.

Tell them to strike off the second part of the clause mentioning paying for remaining time, leaving it just at 30 days' written notice, or point out law 114/1996/art. 24(a): Art. 24. - Rezilierea contractului de inchiriere inainte de termenul stabilit se face in urmatoarele conditii: a) la cererea chiriasului, cu conditia notificarii prealabile intr-un termen de minimum 60 de zile.

Everything is debatable. What seems outrageous for you here seems perfectly acceptable in other parts of the world . The contract is per year , but the payment is per month. You get a rate if you rent per month ( generally prepaid ), and you get another rate if you rent per year.
However, it's extremely difficult to enforce such a contract. As a property manager, I always put this clause for my tenants, and for a good reason - I want to them to give me enough notice before they leave.

Of course, as a professional landlord, you'd be for such a clause. Who doesn't like money for nothing if they can get it?

I love how people can be biased. I never said he should accept it, and more than this, i have stated it's hard to be enforceable ( who would pass through the trouble of sueing a foreigner in Romania ? ).

If I should follow your reasoning, I should say, for the proffessional tenant  : who wouldn't love to sign for a year and leave after 2 months, with no penalty?

@callingcard: Yes, sorry, I assumed Vincent was talking about a standard on-going rental contract (at least I think that is what he thinks he is looking at) when it could in fact be a fixed-term contact. My apologies.

@vincent: It seems likely that the contract the landlord has prepared for you is for a fixed term. That means you are obliged to stay there a year and if you leave early you are indeed liable to pay a penalty. However, unless he is cherry-picking the best of both worlds, they should be some kind of discount for paying up front (if you can afford to do so).

Good luck with it.

Maykal wrote:

The first two points, the 1% late-payment penalty and the allowing of access to check the state of the property, are fine in my opinion. When I rented here I had those in my contract too and I think they are fair enough (I'd want the same if I were a landlord).

Fair enough! I didn't have major objections, I just thought this was weird but it seems standard since I've seen this is other contracts too. Although in other contracts I've seen, the penalty was less than 1% (0.15% I think it was)

Also I'm not sure the landlord will actually come once a month to inspect it, perhaps the first 2 months but the contract gives him the possibility if he thinks the tenant is not reasonable, and I doubt he will thinks that of me.

Again, I don't like it but I can live with that.

Maykal wrote:

The second one, however, seems outrageous to me.

Seems to me too.

callincard wrote:

The contract is per year , but the payment is per month. You get a rate if you rent per month ( generally prepaid ), and you get another rate if you rent per year.

Sure, and I'm OK to stay for a year but I want to protect myself against unforeseen events. If I have to commit to staying 1 year, I will but they are things that are outside of my control.

callincard wrote:

If I should follow your reasoning, I should say, for the proffessional tenant  : who wouldn't love to sign for a year and leave after 2 months, with no penalty?

Well I assumed that was a privilege afforded to any tenant. It certainly is in France, the UK and in Germany (although I think 90 notice is standard in French rental contracts and the contract is always for 3 years in France)

What if the apartment has a fault that I couldn't see when visiting it? I think that's the main reason for giving tenant the privilege to leave whenever they want.

callincard wrote:

However, it's extremely difficult to enforce such a contract.

callincard wrote:

I love how people can be biased. I never said he should accept it, and more than this, i have stated it's hard to be enforceable ( who would pass through the trouble of sueing a foreigner in Romania ? ).

Actually that the first thing I thought when I read the contract: Damn!! Good luck collecting from me!! (I Google translated it before discussing it with my friend). But of course, I don't know how things work in Romania.

It's only later, when I showed it to my friend and she said "don't sign this" that I started thinking about the possibility that the landlord would take me to court to collect.

Also, and again I don't know how the law works in Romania, but I am familiar with English law, A British judge could find that clause to be unfair and possibly breaking the unfair contract terms legislation, which stipulates that there should not be a significant imbalance between the rights and obligations of the parties engaged in the contract. I would be very surprised if a judge ruled in the landlord's favour, even if the contract is signed by both parties.

callincard wrote:

As a property manager, I always put this clause for my tenants, and for a good reason - I want to them to give me enough notice before they leave.

Talking about notice, I'm not sure I understand the details regarding the notice on the landlord's side. Somewhere it says:

7.1    Prezentul contract va inceta a-si mai produce efectele:
            - la expirarea duratei, daca partile nu se inteleg la conditia prevazuta la art. 3.2.
            - prin acordul partilor exprimat in scris.
7.2    Incetarea contractului de inchiriere la initiativa Chiriasului inainte de expirarea  perioadei contractuale se va face printr-o notificare scrisa cu 30 zile inaintea expirarii si in urma platii contravalorii a jumatate din cuantumul chiriei pentru perioada reziliata.

7.3    PROPRIETARUL poate rezilia prezentul contract de plin drept, fara punere in intarziere  si interventia instantei de judecata, dupa o notificare prealabila cu cel putin 5 zile inainte de data la care intervine rezilierea  in urmatoarele situatii:
              - daca CHIRIASUL nu achita chiria pentru lunile urmatoare pana in data de 25 a fiecarei luni.
              - daca CHIRIASUL efectueaza imbunatatiri neacceptate de PROPRIETAR
  - daca CHIRIASUL nu achita la termenele legale impozitele, alte taxe sau cheltuieli ce-i revin potrivit contractului 
  -daca CHIRIASUL nu achita intretinerea in cel mult 2 saptamani de la afisarea acesteia.
      - daca interiorul apartamentului cat si mobilierul vor fi degradate.     
    Orice ingaduinta din partea PROPRIETARULUI nu trebuie interpretata ca o renuntare la pactul comisoriu expres stipulat.
7.4    La incetarea contractului, CHIRIASUL va elibera imobilul in termen de 5 (cinci) zile. Imobilul va fi predat PROPRIETARULUI conform proiectului initial, curat si zugravit, pe baza de proces verbal.
    In cazul desfiintarii contractului CHIRIASUL va elibera imobilul in 24 de ore, in caz contrar PROPRIETARUL putand lua in folosinta spatiul dupa expirarea acestui termen fara vreo alta formalitate.

Which Google  translated gives me:

7.1 This Agreement shall cease to have effect and:
             - The expiry, if the parties do not agree to the condition specified in Art. 3.2.
             - If both parties agree in writing.
7.2 Termination of the lease to Tenant initiative before the expiration of the contract will be made by written notice 30 days before expiration and after paying the equivalent of half the amount of rent for the period terminated.

7.3 OWNER may terminate this contract by operation of law, without formal notice and intervention of the court, after notice at least five days before the date when the termination in the following situations:
               - If the tenant does not pay rent for the coming months until the 25th of each month.
               - If the tenant improvements made ​​by the owner unsupported
   - If the tenant does not pay taxes to the legal terms, fees or other charges incumbent under contract
   -If the tenant fails to pay maintenance in less than two weeks after its posting.
- Whether inside the apartment and furniture will be degraded.
Any leniency of the owner should not be construed as a waiver pact termination clause specifically mentioned.
7.4 On termination, the tenant will deliver property within 5 (five) days. The building will be taught according to the project initially OWNER, clean and painted, the base protocol.
If dissolution of LESSEE shall issue building contract within 24 hours, otherwise the owner can take in space use after expiry of that period without any other formality.

It says nothing about how much notice the landlord has to give me but it mentions 5 days. But not sure if something is lost in translation here.


Also...


4.3    CHIRIASUL va plati chiria anticipat la 25 ale lunii pentru urmatoarea luna.

4.3 LESSEE shall pay rent in advance of the month for the next 25 months.

I assume this means the 25th of the month, not 25 months.



7.4    La incetarea contractului, CHIRIASUL va elibera imobilul in termen de 5 (cinci) zile. Imobilul va fi predat PROPRIETARULUI conform proiectului initial, curat si zugravit, pe baza de proces verbal.

7.4 On termination, the tenant will deliver property within 5 (five) days. The building will be taught according to the project initially OWNER, clean and painted, the base protocol.

Painted? LOL!


I'll post the entire contract later in my next post if anyone is interested


And again, I am asking all this, not to be a pain in the arse (I actually hate people who argue legal technicalities, unless I deal with a major corporation, I always believe people should take reasonable step to resolve dispute amicably) but because I am unfamiliar with how things are done in Romania and I wanna be careful about what I sign.


And again, Maykal and callincard, you guys are ace to have replied that quickly. A big thumbs up to you!!



Vincent

CONTRACT DE INCHIRIERE


Intre :

1.-PARTI CONTRACTANTE

1.1Costache Adrian ,proprietar al apartamentului din Bul.Unirii,nr.65,Bl G1,sc A,ap48,Bucuresti
Si

1.2 ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………............………………………………………………………………….
a intervenit prezentul contract de inchiriere.

2.-OBIECTUL CONTRACTULUI

2.1    Obiectul contractului il reprezinta inchirierea apartamentului situat in Bucuresti,Bulevardul Unirii nr.65, Bl G1,sc,A,ap48.
2.2    Spatiul inchiriat este compus din 2 camere, hol, baie, debara si 3 balcoane,avand suprafata de 68 m2.

3.-DURATA CONTRACTULUI

3.1    Durata contractului este de 1  an, respectiv de la 01.07..2012 pana la 1.07.2013.
3.2    Contractul va putea fi prelungit pentru o alta perioada, numai dupa renegociere.
3.3    Predarea – primirea imobilului se va face la data  de 01.07.2012, complet renovat ,mobilat, utilat si curat.
.

4.-OBLIGATIILE PARTILOR

4.1    PROPRIETARUL va preda spatiul in stare buna, cu lista de inventar.
4.2    PROPRIETARUL  va asigura CHIRIASULUI folosinta pasnica si netulburata  a imobilului inchiriat si posibilitatea de exercitare  a drepturilor ce-i revin din prezentul contract, pe toata durata lui, fara nici un amestec in afacerile declarate de chirias.
4.3    CHIRIASUL va plati chiria anticipat la 25 ale lunii pentru urmatoarea luna.
4.4    CHIRIASUL va raspunde pentru respectarea normelor PSI, a celor de protectie a mediului si a tuturor normelor legale  pentru activitatile desfasurate in imobilul inchiriat, fiindu-i interzis sa desfasoare activitati contrare legilor in vigoare.
4.5    CHIRIASUL se va obliga sa intretina imobilul in buna stare ca un adevarat proprietar, purtand raspunderea pentru toate pagubele. Acesta va permite accesul proprietarului lunar pentru evaluarea starii apartamentului.






5.-DISPOZITII FINANCIARE

5.1    CHIRIASUL va plati PROPRIETARULUI o chirie lunara  de 500 euro pe luna.si o garantie de 500 euro.
5.2    Plata se va efectua PROPRIETARULUI CASH, sau in contul nr…………………………………………….
deschis la banca…………………………………………….
5.3    Neplata la termen a chiriei atrage plata de penalitati de 1% pe fiecare zi de intarziere, calculate asupra intregii sume restante.  Curgerea penalitatilor nu are legatura cu rezilierea contractului.
5.4    CHIRIASUL va achita taxele si contributiile care prin legi sau regulamente locale revin celui care foloseste imobilul pentru sau in legatura cu imobilul inchiriat sau pentru activitatile desfasurate in imobilul inchiriat.    
5.5    La incetarea contractului garantia va fi returnata de PROPRIETAR , daca CHIRIASUL isi va achita toate obligatiile financiare si nu va produce daune interiorului apartamentului si mobilierului.
5.6    Daca CHIRIASUL nu respecta termenii inchirierii  acesta va pierde garantia.
5.7    Existenta si / sau valorificarea acestei garantii nu afecteaza plata la termen a chiriei, nu impiedica curgerea penalitatilor si nici nu constituie motiv de evitare a rezilierii.
5.8    In caz de modificare a codului fiscal chiria poate fi majorata conform modificarii legislative.


6.-PLATA UTILITATILOR

6.1    CHIRIASUL se  obliga sa suporte, pe toata durata contractului cheltuielile legate de urmatoarele utilitati:
1.    Intretinere
2.    Electricitate   
3.    Telefon.
4.    orice alte cheltuieli justificate de functionare si intretinere a Spatiului inchiriat.
6.2    CHIRIASUL va plati direct aceste costuri furnizorilor, in termenul impus de acestia, avand obligatia de a remite PROPRIETARULUI documentele care atesta plata, in copie in termen de 5 zile de la data platii.
6.3    In cazul in care PROPRIETARUL, pentru vreun motiv oarecare, face o plata care, conform prezentului contract, i-ar reveni CHIRIASULUI, acesta din urma va rambursa PROPRIETARULUI suma respectiva, la prima cerere  a acestuia.
6.4    Eventualele conventii sau acorduri incheiate de catre chirias cu Asociatia de Proprietar nu sunt opozabile proprietarului

7.-REZILIEREA CONTRACTULUI

7.1    Prezentul contract va inceta a-si mai produce efectele:
            - la expirarea duratei, daca partile nu se inteleg la conditia prevazuta la art. 3.2.
            - prin acordul partilor exprimat in scris.
7.2    Incetarea contractului de inchiriere la initiativa Chiriasului inainte de expirarea  perioadei contractuale se va face printr-o notificare scrisa cu 30 zile inaintea expirarii si in urma platii contravalorii a jumatate din cuantumul chiriei pentru perioada reziliata.

7.3    PROPRIETARUL poate rezilia prezentul contract de plin drept, fara punere in intarziere  si interventia instantei de judecata, dupa o notificare prealabila cu cel putin 5 zile inainte de data la care intervine rezilierea  in urmatoarele situatii:
              - daca CHIRIASUL nu achita chiria pentru lunile urmatoare pana in data de 25 a fiecarei luni.
              - daca CHIRIASUL efectueaza imbunatatiri neacceptate de PROPRIETAR
  - daca CHIRIASUL nu achita la termenele legale impozitele, alte taxe sau cheltuieli ce-i revin potrivit contractului 
  -daca CHIRIASUL nu achita intretinerea in cel mult 2 saptamani de la afisarea acesteia.
      - daca interiorul apartamentului cat si mobilierul vor fi degradate.     
    Orice ingaduinta din partea PROPRIETARULUI nu trebuie interpretata ca o renuntare la pactul comisoriu expres stipulat.
7.4    La incetarea contractului, CHIRIASUL va elibera imobilul in termen de 5 (cinci) zile. Imobilul va fi predat PROPRIETARULUI conform proiectului initial, curat si zugravit, pe baza de proces verbal.
    In cazul desfiintarii contractului CHIRIASUL va elibera imobilul in 24 de ore, in caz contrar PROPRIETARUL putand lua in folosinta spatiul dupa expirarea acestui termen fara vreo alta formalitate.


8.-FORTA MAJORA

In caz de cutremur, explozie de gaze, prabusiri, etc. daca cladirea devine inutilizabila mai mult de 30 zile se va returna chiria pe perioada nefolosita + garantia.

8.1    Forta majora scuteste partile de raspunderea decurgand din nerespectarea totala sau partiala a obligatiilor asumate prin prezentul contract.
8.2    Prin forta majora partile inteleg orice eveniment neprevazut si inevitabil care are loc independent de vointa lor, dupa incheierea prezentului contract si care impiedica partile de a-si indeplini toate sau o parte din obligatiile care-i revin.
8.3    Atat inceputul cat si incheierea perioadei de forta majora vor fi aduse de partea care invoca la cunostinta celeilalte parti in termen de 5 (cinci) zile, anexand dovezile corespunzatoare. Nerespectarea acestei conditii impiedica partea respectiva de a beneficia de drepturile rezultate din forta majora.
8.4    Daca forta majora persista mai mult de 30 de zile oricare dintre parti este libera sa rezilieze prezentul contract printr-un simplu preaviz adresat celeilalte parti.

9.-NOTIFICARI

9.1    Orice aspect legat de executarea, modificarea sau stingerea contractului va fi notificat de PROPRIETAR catre CHIRIAS la adresa din Bul. Uniri nr65,bl G1,ap 48,sect 3si numarul de fax ______________ si de catre CHIRIAS PROPRIETARULUI la numarul de fax 0213303184.
9.2    Notificarile verbale nu sunt luate in considerare de niciuna dintre parti daca nu sunt consemnate in scris prin scrisoare recomandata cu recipisa de primire prioripost sau fax.
9.3    Schimbarea adresei si/sau a numarului de fax a uneia dintre parti, nu poate fi opusa celeilalte parti, daca nu i-a fost notificata conform procedurii de mai sus.

10.-LITIGII

Neintelegerile care intervin intre parti in legatura cu prezentul contract se vor rezolva pe cale amiabila iar in cazul in care nu vor fi rezolvate prin intelegere directa inter parti, sunt de competenta instantelor judecatoresti competente potrivit legii romane.

Prezentul contract poate fi modificat si completat prin acte aditionale semnate de parti.
    Semnat la Bucuresti, astazi __________________, in 2 exemplare, cate 1 exemplar pentru fiecare parte.

PROPRIETAR                                CHIRIAS

Hi,
last contract  from Blunder city is good enough.With actual market situation nobody will ask payment in advance except 1 months as guarantee because when you are living, some bills come with 2 month delay.+money for next month in advance.So if rent is 500 you have to pay first time  1000 ,than monthly 500.
I also have an house for rent offer on Bucharest classified.
Cheers

dantrinca wrote:

Hi,
last contract  from Blunder city is good enough.With actual market situation nobody will ask payment in advance except 1 months as guarantee because when you are living, some bills come with 2 month delay.+money for next month in advance.So if rent is 500 you have to pay first time  1000 ,than monthly 500.
I also have an house for rent offer on Bucharest classified.
Cheers

Hey dantrica,

Thanks for the reply.

I actually have no problem with the price. I had a problem with the penalty for leaving the property before expiration of the contract. It's 50% of the remaining length.

So for instance if I leave after 2 months (unlikely but just as an example), I would be liable to pay the owner 2500 euro for a property that I wouldn't use. Leaving after 6 months, I would be liable for 1500 euros etc...

I'm really not sure I should accept that, even if at the moment, I plan to stay in Bucharest for a full year. It's a bit risky to me. Even a cheaper rent would not really address this issue (unless it was significantly cheaper of course).

I will look at the house that you have but I'm single so I'm not sure I need an entire house for myself.


Vincent

Oh and one agents with whom I have visited a couple of apartments sent me his version of the rental agreement.

No sign of a penalty for early cancellation, only a 60 days notice clause.

negative usual's you sign for one year.you may face problem to pay for this.Over one year you can leave any time you want with 30 days  notice.

Lots of opportunity for the landlord to screw you over there. It would be very easy for him to keep your deposit because he can claim the flat needs repainting and get his friend Dorel to give him a 500 Euro quote. This would mean that if you leave after 2 months you could end up losing 3000 Euro rather than 2500. I'm also not completely clear on what constitutes 'desfiintarea' of the contract (rather than just 'incetarea'). Doesn't appear to be defined.

Regarding payment, you have to pay on the 25th of each month for the following month. If you don't, he can kick you out. You're right regarding the 5 days' notice - that's all you get if he wants you out, unless it's a 'desfiintare', in which case you get 24 hours.

All-in-all, it's an extremely landlord-centred contract.

Hey there,

I just got back from the meeting with the landlord and the agent.

I ended up signing the contract after negotiating parts of the contract to be re-written. We all sat down in a meeting room at the agency and discussed the problems I had with the contract while the agent was coming back and forth with a new printed version. The landlord seemed receptive to my objections and agreed to change some of the terms. For instance he said the penalty clause for early cancellation was due to the fact that it was a template he used for a commercial property but that he didn't need it for a residential one.

The landlord looked nice enough, sort of big affable guy with a touch of cynical humour. He said he only needed one thing,  someone who pays the rent on time. He spent about a third of the discussion telling me I should beware of Gypsies and I have yet to meet a Romanian guy who didn't do the same. He looked quite busy and said he had a few properties in the area.

We signed the contract, made the payment and he gave me the keys. We then went together to see the ISP to reconnect the internet which should happen within 48 hours according to the lady in the shop.

When we were done at the internet shop, he said goodbye and drove off in his big SUV. We went back to the flat where one guy from the agency was connecting the cables and the agent drove me back home. He said we'll meet again on Sunday afternoon to check if the internet is up and running.

And that was it.


Vincent

You did the right thing getting that clause taken off, well done.

Sa-o folosesti cu placere!

Thanks again for you help guys!!

V.

AdaAdeline wrote:

Salut Vincent!
Ce faci? Cum e viata in Romania?
I just read a few of your posts here and I could sence the enthusiasm of moving to Bucharest. I cannot tell you how proud that makes me, as a Romanian, to see that there are people out there who understand that Romania can be other than a country of barbarians and that they decide to give it a chance. I left Romania one year ago for a professional experience in Belgium, but I can tell you I miss my Bucharest every day and I am pretty convinced that Belgium will be just a few years life.
I hope you will like it too and I am sure you will make friends and enjoy it! I wish the best of luck to you!
Si distractie placuta!

Andreea

Thanks Andreea!

Yeah I'm having fun so far. You can probably relate to the feeling of being in a new place at the beginning, it's exhilarating at times. Your life feels so different from the routine it used to be (15 years in London!!) and hearing a foreign language spoken around you is a nice feeling.

Something about being in a new place and far away from home, it's a strange feeling and I like it! The other day I walked the whole length of Calea Dorobantilor, a nice street for sure, but objectively, in the great scheme of things, probably not that special. Yet to me it felt like conquering Rome!!

Also, I come from Paris originally so there's nothing new to me when it comes to crazy traffic, dirty streets and beggars!! I feel quite at home in fact!!


Alright!! 6h40 in the morning!! It's been (another) long night!! I'm doing it all over again tomorrow... and the day after!!

Vincent

Good luck, enjoy the city, enjoy the flat!

Do you guys know if there is such thing as a dollar store in Bucharest? I'm pretty sure that must exist. You know the kind, a shop that sell all sort of unsexy products for a really cheap price.

I have a whole bunch of things I wanna buy and don't fancy paying much for it. Things like hangers, detergents, a dish drainer, scrap paper, sponges, sellotape, extension plugs, bin bags etc...

Poundland for the win!!!

Oh and Maykal if you're reading this, how long did it take you to reach a reasonable conversational level in Romanian?


Vincent


PS: Looking at how much water my air conditioning system produces, I understand why so many buildings are leaking now!!

Hey Vincent,

I say that after about 2 years I was confident enough to handle most situations on my own if needed, although I could do the usual shopping and ordering and stuff within 6 months. I bought my apartment in 2006 (having been here 2 years) and I had to deal with all of that (negotiations, contracts, et al) in Romanian and the notar was sufficiently happy with my level not to require a translator to be brought in. Now I can read Romanian to an advanced level, write pretty well, understand most of what is said (unless the speaker has a heavy accent or mumbles), but my speaking still sucks to be honest.

As you're a French native speaker, I reckon you should be able to get to about that level in half the time. Forget about hitting the books; total immersion is the only way, so get yourself a girlfriend who doesn't speak English or French and you'll be fluent in 6 months!

There is no such thing as Dollarama in Bucharest, afaik. Look for the small shops in/near peasant markets in cheaper/working neighborhoods. You'll be surprised how less they are than the Real Hypermarket in the vicinity.

callincard wrote:

Last one is still a little bit overpriced.
Anyway, the contract is not valid until declared at the fiscal authorities.

This is not true. Any contract -including rental agreements signed between parties, is according to the (old & new) Civil Code, binding in a court of law. If a contract is not registred with the tax authorities, which is the owner's legal responsibility -not the tennant's-, does not void the contract!

It's really untrue to say that in case the owner does not register the contract at the fiscal authorities,the contract would be void.Not in a million years!

BlunderCity wrote:

Do you guys know if there is such thing as a dollar store in Bucharest? I'm pretty sure that must exist. You know the kind, a shop that sell all sort of unsexy products for a really cheap price.

Vincent

Well, there exist such shops, they are called something like "3 Lei", and they can be found in poorer residential areas (not your neighborhood). They are filled with cheap chinese crap. I wouldn't advise to use them (although probably you couldn't even find them). Just go to Carrefour, you can find everything in one place, and it's quite cheap too!