Hello! New to the forum and need advice on schools and attitudes!

Hi juke96!

Welcome to Expat.com and thanks for this introduction

Regards
Armand

Not having children myself means I may not be the best person to answer, but here goes.
All children put into a new enviroment will find the experience a little trying, but at that age they are very resiliant and will adapt and fit in in a few days.
The biggest difference will be that most of the children will be bilingual to some degree although their main language will be Llanito ( Gibberish to you ) therefore again your child will obviously be an outsider, but this will soon sort itself out as your child picks up the language.

I would not say there is predjudice but there are differences that will be easily overcome.

Thanks very much for the reply (and the welcome). 

As I understand it, very many Gibraltarian children don't start speaking english until they start school - up until that point, they've usually only learnt Llanito. 

My wife found a post on another forum through a google search.  The forum is called 'Chav Towns' which is a series of tongue-in-cheek damning reports on many UK towns and cities.  Someone entered a very negative report (as you'd expect given the nature of the forum) on Gibraltar.  The responses from Gibraltarians were a little worrying and in some case very anti-english. 

Whilst I understand their natural reaction to want to defend what's theirs; I wondered if any of what was written was a glimpse of reality in terms of what some Gibraltarians really think of the British.

This led to our concern about the possibility of hostility in schools against the english.

A word of warning though, the Chav Towns site is not safe for work/children/sensitive people etc..

Like Grumpy, I don't have children, so my views are second hand.

I have heard of bullying of non gibbo kids, in one case, a child was taken out of school and went to finish her education in the UK - she's back now, working and enjoying herself.

In another case, her mother moved the whole family back to north america. Two extreme examples.

Most gib parents, to my knowledge, do speak to their children in both languages, ie I hear them on the bus and in the street, yes, mainly Spanish/llanito because that's the natural language but they do use english too, so the kids will have a grounding before they start school.  It would be a bit stupid to attend an English speaking school without being able to understand it.

My partner speaks Spanish all day at work. He's working with Moroccans, Spaniards and a few Gibraltarians.  Oh and a Rumanian. No Brits.  The only ones who speak English are the Gibbos, who like to do it for a sense of elitism I guess.

The problem with the language will be the exclusion. Start teaching your child Spanish NOW if you really want to come. It is very difficult to learn Spanish in Gib.  I used linguaphone tapes and we also lived in Spain before we came here.

As soon as you open your mouth, Gibbos will start speaking to you in English.  You need to be very persistent to continue in Spanish because they won't let you.  I use local Moroccan shops and the market for my veg where I speak Spanish, I mix my languages with people I meet at the bus stop or in the street.  But that comes of more than ten years of Spanish all the time. Plus I also speak with an Andaluz accent/dialect so I don't sound like I've come out of a crash course at an academy.

I'm not trying to put you off. We think it is a great place. I do think the language is important.  It's ironic that people tell my partner that his Spanish is good and they know people who have been here for more than 20 years who don't have a word of it. They wouldn't would they?  Gibbos won't let them!!

We haven't come across any anti-Britishness.  We have come across anti Moroccan and anti Spanish attitudes. 

Do you know that to get into school you will need Gib residency?  You need for one of you to either have a job or to have lots of money and private health care.  You also need to have bought a place here or have an official rental contract.  You pay a lot of money for a small bit of space.  Or even more money for a slightly larger bit of space. 

Feel free to browse around my blog for more info about Gib. roughseasinthemed.wordpress.com

Hi and thanks for your really helpful reply. I must say that you've partly confirmed my worst fears,that my child may be singled out and bullied for being non-gibraltarian. I know you've only provided two examples, but they are concerning nonetheless.

It would be really useful to connect with parents that have enrolled their British kids in the local schools. We may now have to consider some other contingency, such as the feasibility of private school costs (which we probably couldnt afford).

That said, I notice that there are provisions for the few British Forces that remain on Gibraltar to utilise two of the local schools. I'm wondering if these schools might be more appropriate because the local children attending them may be better used to working alongside 'foreign' kids?

Questions..questions..

Thanks again for all of your help

Well, my neighbour is british and her daughter had a hard time a while ago too, but everything seems to be ok now and she is getting good grades.  I think she is early teens.

Neighbours above have three children and I don't know of any problems they have. I'll ask around but it might take a while. It's not insuperable and it's not as though the UK is perfect either.

You've got a 12 month plus plan. It's not the non-gib plan, it's typical child (and adult) behaviour of being able to exclude someone, or victimise them for whatever reason. And in this case, it is mainly 'you can't speak spanish, we can, so we are better than you,' for want of a better description. 

Do your homework, watch spanish films, read spanish, learn to write it and you will be well on the way.  Learn how to tell people to Largate, and all the swear words.  It soon shuts people up.

Hi juke
Just reading your post again, back in the early 80's the anti British feeling of some locals was much worse than it is today. That was mainly caused by the military's attitude to the locals.
The fact that there is very little UK millitary presence here now has changed the attitude considerably.

Also on the language side more children speak English at home than in the 80's

Regards

Grumpy

To Roughseasinthemed,

I'd be so grateful if you could find out how your neighbour's children fared - thank you. Sadly, I've found more claims on other forums about British children not being accepted by their classmates in the local schools.

To Grumpy,

Thanks. I was part of the Military in the 80s. In fairness, I never once witnessed any anti-British attitude (at least not overtly) towards us. In fact, I didn't ever see any antagonism protracted either way.

There was a certain degree of 'stand-offishness' on the part of the locals but this was understandable because of the possible ramifications of young gibraltarian girls fraternising with us squaddie-types.   Other than that we all seemed to get along fine.

juke96 wrote:

To Grumpy,

Thanks. I was part of the Military in the 80s. In fairness, I never once witnessed any anti-British attitude (at least not overtly) towards us. In fact, I didn't ever see any antagonism protracted either way.

There was a certain degree of 'stand-offishness' on the part of the locals but this was understandable because of the possible ramifications of young gibraltarian girls fraternising with us squaddie-types.   Other than that we all seemed to get along fine.

I had a foot in both camps in the 70's and 80's and some older locals certainly voiced their anti British feeling explaining it was down to the way they had been treated by the military. But please note these were in the minority. However as I said earlier this attitude has all but disappeared now, which means it is not being passed on to their children.
Although RSinM is quoting cases of abuse I personally have no knowledge of anything that could be claimed as racial. However there will always be the odd case of children having hard times at school wherever they are or from whatever background or racial profile.
When one considers the very wide ethic mix crammed into such a small space here, then Gib is a good example of tolerance and understanding.

I'll get my partner to ask, he sees far more people than I do and he's also far more personable and sociable.  Don't know when though, it's not the sort of thing you knock on the door and say 'Hi what happened with the bullying?'  People can be a bit defensive on that sort of topic. 

I should also add regarding the other two examples, don't forget that the one wasn't British but Canadian and, on top of that, her father was earning nearly two mill quid a year.  There could have been a bit of jealousy there, yes?  And another daughter didn't seem to have any problems.

And the one who went back to England was half Gibbo anyway! 

So I think Grumpy's analysis is right, it's not necessarily racial, it can be due to anything. 

I didn't come to Gib until the 90s but interestingly older people that we know are very pro-British.  Because my partner works in construction, he gets to meet a lot of people and they just chat to him about anything and everything.  Similarly when he walks the dog he meets a lot of young people who express exactly the same pro-Brit sentiments.

I quoted the examples of bullying because I had heard of it.  What you don't hear about is all the ones who aren't bullied. We've got another couple of friends with two kids and they've never mentioned it.  Another former workmate who is Irish, always makes sure he is in Gib for the summer to get the kids into school (need the residence in gib before sept). 

I've heard of bullying in schools in Spain and know other Brit kids who have got on fine.  So where's the difference?  I ended up being ignored by a close group of friends at school in the UK (I didn't smoke and they did).  It wasn't very nice but you get over it.

I also agree with G's comment about the different ethnic mixes in a small space.  Within a stone's throw we have a Catholic cathedral, the Anglican diocesan cathedral for Europe, a synagogue and a mosque.  If you think of the history of Gib, Arabic, Spanish, British, and the immigrants - Maltese, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Moroccan, British, and I've prob missed some there - it's pretty multi-cultural for a place of three square miles. 

I think it is fair to tell people about the down sides.  But I wouldn't be here if I didn't like it.

Hi to both of you and thanks for your continued input.

My wife and I were only talking last night about the point made in the above post; and that is that one only usually hears of negative behaviour (bullying etc) and that its likely that many incidences of good behaviour goes unnoticed. Of course, bad behaviour will always exist and certain children will seek out differences in their classmates in order to isolate them. Gibraltar is probably no more an exception than Spain or the UK. 

We're feeling more positive today and are always grateful to listen to the experiences of others.

We're naturally protective of our only child. He is a sensitive and kind boy who would only ever want to be accepted in a new environment. Without the backup of similar aged siblings, his smooth transition is of paramount importance to us. Afterall, it is our choice to consider relocation and not his.

It's really encouraging to read that attitudes appear to be positive overall.

Thanks to you both again.

Hi all,

I've just read the this strand on the forum for the first time today, I've been busy renting out the house and being made redundant over the last few days! As gumpy & rsitm know - they have been very helpful to me - I am moving to Gib in Sept with my wife and daughter - 14 - who will going to schl there.

We havent heard anything to worry us about bullying and hope she will fit in OK. The only problem is that if the kids speak Llanito to eachother in the play ground etc she wont be able to join in. My wife is a teacher and has been accepted for working in the Gib schl system, so I will let you know how it all goes if you keep in touch, both from the teacher's perspective and from my daughter's. My wife has an old uni friend who is a Gibraltarian, and also a teacher, and she has never suggested that there might be a problem with integrating Brit kids in schl. Perhaps the Gibraltarian kids speak Llanito to eachother in the play ground becoz thats what they use at home - and that could be a problem for the english only speakers at infants schl? As my daughter is 14, we are assuming all her schl mates will be english speakers. Also there seem to be a lot of youngish people from outside Gib working there in gaming & IT so we are assuming that there will be a lot of english only speakers at schl.

As I say keep in touch and I'll let you know how it goes for us! We have rented for 6 months by which time hopefully we will all be certified Gib residents, my wife will have  a job, my daughter will be enrolled in schl, and I will have had a nice 6 month break of doing nothing apart from getting a suntan! Btw were you ever at RMCS Shrivenham?

Nick.

Hi Nick,

Thanks so much for your kind offer. I really hope that your move goes well.

I'd already read some of your previous posts before you responded to this one and admired your bravery in jumping straight in there  - taking a few risks along the way. I've always believed that the majority of people that achieve very little and moan how difficult life is are usually the ones who have never pushed themselves.

So, hat's off to you and your family for taking the plunge. I will definitely stay in touch through this forum.

You must all be very excited about starting your new life in a matter of weeks. Funny to think that two years ago I was in a similar position as yourself, although we were embarking to France. Can't think for the life of me why I didn't consider Gibraltar at that time.

Regarding Shrivenham, I gave a couple of presentations to some junior RAF officers on courses there about 7 years ago if that helps? 

Best wishes to you all.

Juke

Hi Juke,

I'll keep you posted on progress... regarding RMCS, I worked there 88 to 95 so thought you might have passed through, perhaps on the MESE or GW MSc's....

Nick.

hi Juke96,

we are now resident in gib, daughter happily in school and wife busy at work, message me if you are still interested in an update on prgress, schools etc...

Nick.

Hi Nick and everyone else.

Thanks for the update (I've sent you a private message).

We returned from Gibraltar on Monday and are making plans to return again in either December and/or February.  I had calculated that 27 years, 10 months and 7 days had passed since I was last there.  Clearly the change was massive - but I have to say that I think it's all been for the better.  My wife loved it, as did our daughter.

We're making plans and taking our time.  I'll keep you updated.

Have a great weekend.