Long way to be global city?

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THD,where are you?

Where's the construction design in HCM coming from?

Sploke77 wrote:

It will be a long way before this city reaches global standards. My latest example is S follows :
Even a  so-called 5 star hotel like the Pullman does not believe in having sufficient car parks. As the citizens get more affluent, cars will increase. So, this latest hotel probably can only park 10 cars at most! It does have a so called basement parking ONLY for motorcycles!  NO underground car park ? Who is that discerning designer of the hotel? Has he got enough brains? Even some budget hotels in Singapore has more than forty car parks spaces !! LOL..beats me that this is even part of ACCOR chain, ha ha..

I'm sure all hotels are designed to house/lodge travels who take taxis.  Otherwise, they'd spend all that money to park cars that take up spaces where they can "park" people and make more money.

Just do what everybody else does..just leave your car in the middle of the street.  I've never seen a CSGT ticketing an illegally parked car and calling for a tow truck to tow it.  When you come back...you may have mirrors missing, but..

jimbream wrote:

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[img align=c]https://internetman.net/images/iman.gif[/url]

THD,where are you?

Where's the construction design in HCM coming from?

Yah, I was writing when you clicked the "Submit" button. 

Most designs are from the French occupation period, or at a time when there were bicycles roaming the city instead of cars.  You realize the economic boom just really took off since 2000 when the USA lifted the embargo and "normalized trade relations".  Since then, our allies (the South Koreans, Japanese, and Australians) started swarming in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta … _relations

Just wait a bit...soon the USA will invent flying cars so we won't have any of this traffic problem.  Then you can just hover your car above your window of your hotel room.  Or stick it on the side of the building.

Google will do it! 

The first purpose built multi level car park is supposed to have started by now. Saigon needs at least 5 of these just to get the streets into some kind of reasonable state.

colinoscapee wrote:

The first purpose built multi level car park is supposed to have started by now. Saigon needs at least 5 of these just to get the streets into some kind of reasonable state.

Have you seen what they have in Singapore?
It's a compact,open wall car storage. It uses an electric elevation unit to store cars in their own cubicle.The car has it's own platform,so once your car is parked and locked onto the platform,no one else need touch it physically.
I've seen that on TV,but not in real life until singapore.
However,if I own a Jag or a Merc coupe,I'll park wherever I please thank you very much.

anything that discourages cars coming into d1 is fine by me

'Building Rules' are just for below poverty line people even though it's a socialist country. Green bill - inevitable part of 'approval'
When I saw Pullman, I asked myself that why don't they acquire Tran Hung Dao to make reception hall.

Interesting to see how the new train system goes, Im hoping it will get some vehicles off the road. The traffic wouldnt be so bad if people were a bit more patient and actually gave a damn about someone else

colinoscapee wrote:

Interesting to see how the new train system goes, Im hoping it will get some vehicles off the road. The traffic wouldnt be so bad if people were a bit more patient and actually gave a damn about someone else

In 2015 I'll treat my family to a trip by train to Suoi Tien Park.
That way we can avoid the crowded aggressive traffic.

jimbream wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Interesting to see how the new train system goes, Im hoping it will get some vehicles off the road. The traffic wouldnt be so bad if people were a bit more patient and actually gave a damn about someone else

In 2015 I'll treat my family to a trip by train to Suoi Tien Park.
That way we can avoid the crowded aggressive traffic.[img align=c]http://www.globalsherpa.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/china-new-year-train-crowd.jpg[/url]

Wow, undercapacity!  I bet you can fit about 100 more passengers in that traincar.  Like they do on buses. 

I rode a public bus one time during a holiday - forgot which one.  I got on the bus like 300 meters AFTER the start of the route; meaning the bus just start to go on it's route....and it was full.  I mean packed like a sardine can!

Regardless, the bus conductor still let me on.  And I wasn't the last one!  He kept squeezing in some more.  We kept jamming the bus to maybe 400% capacity.  I estimated we had over 100 passengers for a maybe 24 seats.  If I was a NEW Expat, I'd be sweating bullets concerned about safety and how moronic the bus operators were, but since I've been here a while, I just rode along thinking to myself, I'd probably die if this bus gets in an accident but what the hell...just enjoy the ride...standing, squished, feet numbed, arms tired from holding on to the ceiling bar...overall a fun experience feeling what the "average Vietnamese" endures. 

I'd recommend a bus ride to any Expat...especially during rush hour.  Find one that's really jam packed.  Just be aware of valuables in your pocket and you'll have a good time.  Especially if the bus suddenly slams on the brakes, you get this domino squish...like everyone lurches forward together.  Like a giant pig-pile.

International airport Long Thanh project (Dong Nai province, about 50km far from SG) has been suspended thought the State has spent a lot of money for the site clearance, design... since 2005. 3 highway projects which were proposed to run under pilot scheme of PPP (public-private-partnership) form has been switched to "State project" and the construction are still "under process". There are about 12 proposed subways/skytrain lines within urban city of Hanoi and SG still "on-going" for nearly 10 years since the first day they were proposed - dream onnnnnnnn!

global city?

What's a Global City?
Do mean living in/like every other Western City!!
Isn't that why we leave it all behind to get away....................other wise just stay where you are.

Yeah was going to say something along the same line. Just keep Vietnam the way it is now. Slow paced development no need to rush anything.

bluecheer wrote:

What's a Global City?
Do mean living in/like every other Western City!!
Isn't that why we leave it all behind to get away....................other wise just stay where you are.

When I was younger and in the states I always knew like would be better if everyone rode motorbikes.  I enjoy it here in Vietnam. Everyday I can play chicken with someone riding against traffic, what a rush! Night time is also fun with no lights on other bikes, bicycles, foot traffic not to mention the big trucks and buses honking horns. My reflexes have improved, depression is less, life is good....

Traffic in Vietnam has improved a bit compared to 10 years ago where there was no signs and line dividing markings or central island/barriers. You'd be travellng a few kms and come upon accident scenes and people strewn about back than.

In some states helmet is not required and I've seen some ride 100+ km/h compared to Vietnam where helmet is now mandatory whereas 10 years ago it was not.

Sure traffic is not up to world standards yet but at least it's improving however slow it may be.

The irony is that Saigon was, at one time, a world class city. And it can be one again. But that would require central planning and a budget totally under the control of whatever government runs Saigon. That's not likely to happen given Central Government needs to redistribute moneys. It seems Central Vietnam gets hit by a lot of flooding, typhoons, etc., the relief of which undoubtedly causes funding redistributions dictated from above.

I really hope they don't lose whatever French charm remains in Saigon. Skyscrapers are fine, but they should be limited to a reasonable height. Perhaps a more Manhattan style Saigon could be erected across the river.

Whoever the City of Saigon architectural / development planning committee are, I wish them well. I don't wish for a Vietnam that is unchanged. But I do wish for a Vietnam that can retain its architectural and cultural inheritance while providing opportunity for its citizens. There has to a way to do that.

Very true Lirelou, Saigon was a very cosmopolitian city in the 60's and 70's. Once the commies took over, it all changed, you can read all about it in a book by BBC journalist Bill Hayton. He was removed by the commies for publishing the book, seems they didnt like what he said.

As long as the government owned building companies dont build too much. I worked in the building industry for 25 years and the government owned companies here have very,very low standards of construction.

I've never been to Binh Duong but seeing youtube videos and development designs it looks to have the potential of a world class city.

Binh Duong has some very good architecture, there is a very good architect by the name of Vo Trong Nhgia who has designed some really nice buildings there, such as this  cafe built from bamboo.

http://inhabitat.com/15-smoke-dried-con … -nghia-05/http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/pages … -time.aspx

bluecheer wrote:

What's a Global City?
Do mean living in/like every other Western City!!
Isn't that why we leave it all behind to get away....................other wise just stay where you are.

Has little to do with living West vs East. It's a city that is a jack of all trades and excels in all aspects of the economy from airports, banking, universities, housing, politics, etc. New York, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore being examples.

HCMC has these things--just not on a global scale. I'd hardly consider HCMC a place to "get away" from it all... this place is pretty fast paced and noisy imo. I hope HCMC can achieve global status if that is what they're aiming for (which it is).

I thought the stacking greenhouse building was designed by a lady. Guess not. That's going to be one of my goals in Vietnam to visit all of Vo Trong Nghia's architectural designs.

Saigon will become a global city when they ban cars completely.

Can you please tell me what city has banned cars completely

colinoscapee wrote:

Can you please tell me what city has banned cars completely

Venice

Its about the only one and for some other reason than to much traffic, and

Amsterdam is virtually car free to and quite frequently closed for (private) cars is well. There are also areas, where cars are completely banned during day/business times or only have a small time frame to load/unload goods.
yes, and that is working very well. I used to live there a few years.

As a matter of fact, I have since many years no more a car and actually like public transport (in Vietnam a long way to go). But sooner or more later it will come.
Until than I just plan a bit more time for travel and locally either use my E-Scooter or the stinky one

Venice is an exception due to the water and access.

colinoscapee wrote:

Venice is an exception due to the water and access.

You asked.  Google has the answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_car-free_places

But most of these places like you said have access issues or are partially banned.  Several islands in Australia ban cars.

I think as long as the governing authorities have cars, they won't inconvenience themselves. 

But I think like Civic Square in Canberra, HCMC can make D1 or at least Bến Thành Market area pedestrian only.  Places that are walking only are very tourist friendly.

Actually I said city, not islands. Also its only parts of a city, the poster said ban cars in Saigon, that means, quan 7 all the way out to Hoc Mon., maybe they should of said just in the business district. The Peoples Committee of D1 has been talking about making Bui Vien a mall for years, it wont happen as it will limit people who live in the hems, they wont be able to get to their houses.

colinoscapee wrote:

Actually I said city, not islands. Also its only parts of a city, the poster said ban cars in Saigon, that means, quan 7 all the way out to Hoc Mon., maybe they should of said just in the business district. The Peoples Committee of D1 has been talking about making Bui Vien a mall for years, it wont happen as it will limit people who live in the hems, they wont be able to get to their houses.

In the real world of Sai Gon today, think there's about two chances of banning cars altogether. None and zero.(at the moment)
Mainly because it's usually the rich, powerful and/or those people connected to 'high places' within the government who own the most number of cars on the roads in the city.
The rest of us just put up with wearing breathing masks and ride motorbikes, electric or pedal powered bicycles.

A really good, modern 'Skytrain' system, such as the one working in Bangkok right now would be great for inner Sai Gon and most of the outer districts.
BUT even that would require major redesigning, years of planning, demolition of many of the cities streets and buildings plus years or decades of never ending construction work.

That would also entail these same rich, powerful, well connected current private car owning people to most probably give up their own buildings or move their businesses, something I don't think they would be very happy or co-operate doing.

Last point, as previously mentioned, Sai Gon was a city mainly designed and built around the French colonial days when horses or water buffalo pulled carts and carriages, bicycles, etc and only a very few motorized vehicles where on the streets. Everyone else just walked or tried to hang on the outside of a moving vehicle. (so I've been told)

I'm no architect or urban designer but I'm guessing by it's whole basic design, especially that of the inner districts of Sai Gon would not lend itself to such modernization and re-construction very well at all.  

Even if it WAS possible, and the Vietnamese can do damned near anything once they make up their minds they really want to,- how much (if any) of the very few of what's still left today of the older, traditional, heritage buildings would be left intact afterwards ?
How many of the parks and open public places to relax or study in during the day would vanish as well ? 
Not very much would be my guess. 
Sadly it's a fact of life that modern money has the biggest say in what is happening now and for the near future.

I'm not against progress, BUT what of the past heritage ? 
What will be left for the younger generations growing up today and next generations still to come ?
What are they going to be able to look back at and see the real things for themselves and not just paintings or some old photographs ?

That's just my 2 Dongs worth.

You make some very good points. One of the biggest issues is that the streets are so narrow, never designed for cars. I think if they finally get parking lots to keep the cars from parking on the roads will be a good start, so many streets are blocked when two cars park opposite each other and cause a bottleneck in the traffic.

Actually Flip, Saigon and Cholon have something in common with Venice. They grew up on water traffic, primarily canals and other waterways. The roads they had were ancillary to the waterways. But this was back in the days when Vietnam's population was a fraction of what it is today.

It's not only the perceived rights of the rich that will impact any no-auto issue, it's the expectations and dreams of those who hope to be at least middle class. I think they'd do better to consider limiting the size of motor traffic in specific urban areas, and limiting no-vehicle streets to areas where parallel streets would allow landowners along the 'mall' vehicle access to the back of their properties. Also, a natural gas requirement for any vehicles over a certain size wouldn't hurt, and someone is thinking along those lines:

http://www.ngvjournal.com/en/vehicles/i … owered-bus

THD, Camberra's a small city which would be far smaller if it weren't the official seat of government. They have far fewer voices to contend with.

OMG... seeds of colonisation again
Live and Let Live
Enjoy

There's no point in banning cars if they build an efficient public transportation system where that would be the best option. San Francisco is in no way, shape or form built for cars either but have set up plenty of public transportation that suffices better than a car. (You could also get some of the hippies there to transplant here and jump in front of cars and scream about the environment like there. )

Like I said, to progress, they must have cars first. Otherwise, why do so many car companies sell their wares here? Haven't they done their projections 10 years down the road? More middle class should own more cars and then push the Govt to solve that problem first. Meanwhile, plans to build MTRs and the like could commence and difficulties and solutions along the way, like resettlements could bulldoze their way through. We would then have a situation like what is happening in the rural areas of the Middle Kingdom!

Fixing the existing roads would be a good start, some of the roads in the countryside are just death traps.

Sploke77 wrote:

Like I said, to progress, they must have cars first. Otherwise, why do so many car companies sell their wares here? Haven't they done their projections 10 years down the road? More middle class should own more cars and then push the Govt to solve that problem first. Meanwhile, plans to build MTRs and the like could commence and difficulties and solutions along the way, like resettlements could bulldoze their way through. We would then have a situation like what is happening in the rural areas of the Middle Kingdom!

That won't happen for decades, because of Vietnam's infrastructure.   It's a country with high population density, not a lot of land, widening the roads to make room for cars will require them to demolish current buildings and rebuild everything, and I'm sure the vietnamese government would rather keep things the way they are.  Also, a basic car like a Honda Civic, which costs $16,000US, costs literally double that in Vietnam.  Given that the average Vietnamese salary is roughly $2500-$3000 a year, its completely unrealistic to expect middle class Vietnamese to buy a vehicle, when a scooter is more economical.

Cars in Vietnam are completely unaffordable, even to more affluent citizens like US, Canada, nobody here would pay $36,000 for a Civic, and to ask a citizen from a developing country to pay such a price for a car, is completely unrealistic.  And seeing as how it's a pain in the butt to drive around in a car at 5 mph in busy traffic, when you can get around much more easily on a scooter, you can see how cars will likely not be so commonplace.

It seems that a lot of police can afford a car on their meager wage of 300usd a month, I wonder how they do it.

Exactly my point. As I start to mix around a bit, came across many affluent local families who even have 2 cars! The Crescent Mall has parking spaces for close to 100 cars with 2 basements. But even Vincom Centre downtown has zero spaces for cars! It's a pain in the a___e to try to park in there, a nightmare! Those that are in business, does it mean a lot of greasing took place before they spied the loopholes to enable them to become RICH? I wonder. If you work for a salary, then a car is definitely a dream..a Kia is close to 500 mio. If a couple  work hard and save, in 10 years, a car is within reach, surely...