Nice things about Morocco

I agree with you. Most visitors who come to Morocco are pleasantly surprised by the service. I take it in preference to other modes of transport whenever possible. It's safe too.

Is that the new orange one with 2 floors? That was the first time to go on a train with 2 floors.

The orange ones with double deckers are used on the Casablanca to El Jadida line in particular. They are quite posh, with first class and snack bars. If they are used on other lines, I'm sure someone will come along to say.

True. AS a new expat, I do not yet understand the reasons for this neglect of the South. Would  you care to enlighten me?  e ile.

The French were mainly interested in what they called "Le Maroc Utile", that is, the middle of the country. Thus the lines were built there in the main. Some of the network was not even envisaged for passengers, such as the El Jadida branch. The stations along the line are uniformly far from their dependant villages or towns and the line actually was built to Jorf Lasfar for the phosphates. I believe the stations may have been an afterthought. When the train stops at these small halts, there is barely a house to be seen and the towns they serve are miles away, even El Jadida, 3km to the centre of town. I believe the branch line to Safi was built for similar reasons.

Yeah, El-Jadida station is in the middle of nowhere. I didn't understand why they would position it there, but now that explains it.

I hope they have good bus service? C.

Personally I didn't think they did.

There are 2 bus companies which are good, the CTM and Supratours. Some of the CTM fleet was bought new 8 years ago and is fading now, but it is still well maintained. They will generally both get you to the destination on time, without loads of stops to pick up people along the way and you won't find chickens and sheep in them!

There are also some other good private lines, but you have to have your ear to the ground and rely on word of mouth to be sure that a certain destination will always have one of that private company's better coaches to do the journey. You also need to be sure that it doesn't stop along the way to pick up people in the middle of nowhere as this radically increases journey times.

The buses I went on, were not fit enough to be on the road. In any developed country, they would be in the scrap yard. And the ticket prices were not reasonable. 50 Dirham from El Jadida to Marakech. It was also 50 Dirham from Safi to El Jadida, if I recall correctly. And I was told it would take x hours, it took x*2. There wasn't any way of finding out where exactly you are, and how many stops/hours remain. Overall, it wasn't a pleasant experience.

The people you were with should have told you to take the CTM or a decent line. Plenty exist.

Moreover, how can £3.50 not be a reasonable fare for a 125 km journey to Safi, for example? What would be a reasonable fare in your opinion? This is actually the fare on a "posh" line too, so the people you were with must have been dullards to let you go on what you considered to be a sub-standard coach. It's 60 on the CTM, which doesn't stop on the way and has respectable clients and coaches.

I pay a fiver to travel to my brother here, and it's 460 odd km if I'm not mistaken.

I think I took the CTM once. I assume it's the one where the drivers wear a suit/uniform. Still, no information about current location, how long left, stops it will stop at, and basic details that passengers should be aware of.

You get the basic information from the website. Moroccans don't particularly care where it will stop or they know already. There doesn't have to be a wastefully expensive board. If a CTM coach halts for a comfort rest and/or meal stop, the driver announces where the place is and how long for. They also announce beforehand what cities they are approaching. They have never not done this when I have been on CTM. Supratours does it too.

You are lucky. I paid £4 to go to Uxbridge from Victoria on the "Oxford Tube" coach - 20km. Much more to go to Oxford, £15 as far as I remember.

It's in French. As you said, Moroccans don't care or they already know. As a visitor, I do care, and don't know. That was the problem. There is room for a lot of improvement. It's really not that hard. They can start with labelling the train platforms.

All train platforms are labelled. All of them without exception. The name of each station is prominently displayed on the station buildings/ticket office without exception. They use the French system of having signs which are not, as they are in the UK, flat on the walls, but at 90 degrees to the walls at the beginning and the end of the platforms as well as flat on the ticket office buildings.

They are, rightly, not going to install expensive boards and automatic voice systems on coaches for the odd foreigner. You can also ask where you are, people will tell you, all you have to say is "El Jadida?" and someone will say "Oui" or "Non". If you speak MSA, most of the people on CTM and Supratours will understand you as they are better educated and wealthier than people on the cheap coaches.

However, if you take a posh coach on a well-plied tourist route, say, Essaouira to Marrakech, you may be on a bus with announcements and even a display board. But why would you want one? The driver announces each city.

I'm sorry, I haven't seen any labels. Please direct me to images and/or video that shows clearly labelled platforms. Clearly labelled means the average passenger can see it while sitting in any seat without any problems. Having it at 90 degrees from the wall at the start and end doesn't cut it (helps the driver, not passengers). If there is a label on the building, those seated in front of it can see it while the others on the other carriages can't. It doesn't cater to the foreigner, and also I just realized, neither to the disabled. How would a deaf person ask? He can't hear the answer, without it turning into an awkward situation for them. Clearly labelled platforms is the easy solution. What about voice-system for the blind? As I said, there is a lot of areas where it can be improved.

It's not about wanting something specifically for me. "Accessibility" is something I need to regularly consider as part of my work. So I notice and care about things other may not, or don't think it's a big deal. To me, it is.

You said they were not labelled. They are, Now you want to say that the labels are in the wrong place.

We are talking about a developing country. Money has to go to essential things such as keeping the wretched system running in the first place. It's not going to go on changing 100s of stations for a minority of people who may have a hearing impairment. They can sit at the front, if they do. They'll see the two 90 degree signs and the sign on the building as the train pulls in. For others, if they cannot understand the actual words Tnine Chtouka, Casablanca, L'Bir Jdid, Fez, Marrakech or whatever, announced clearly over the public address system in the French announcements or spot the signs, then these people are a danger to themselves and shouldn't be let out unsupervised.

How long have these things you desire been available or enforced in the UK? Or Europe? Not long. Yet they can be paid for there, they are rich countries. They are coming in on the new trams in Morocco. Do you think that Morocco can spend like an oil monarchy. Improvements? For goodness sake!. They do as well as they can and as well as can be expected.

Having it placed in position where it benefits the driver, isn't what I call labelling a platform for passengers. So yes, they are not labelled for passengers. Didn't you say this:

Some of the network was not even envisaged for passengers, such as the El Jadida branch. The stations along the line are uniformly far from their dependant villages or towns and the line actually was built to Jorf Lasfar for the phosphates. I believe the stations may have been an afterthought.

This is from a century ago:

http://blog.nrm.org.uk/2013/01/09/3d-ph … years-ago/

That is what I mean by labelling a platform. It was done 100 years ago.

Thus you won't need to ask hearing impaired people to sit at the front and watch carefully for the signs as the train pulls in. It's ridiculous.

I don't know when voice-overs began, but certainly not recently.

No, they do not do as well as they can and can be expected.

Corruption Perceptions Index
Rank:
91/177

Score:
37/100

Control of corruption
Percentile Rank:
53%

Budget Openness:
Minimal

Score:
28

Source: http://www.transparency.org/country#MAR

Wasn't this thread meant to be about the ONCF? Trains? Not about general transparency or whatever you want to call it from a site that doesn't take into account tax dodging in developed countries nor aggregated health and/or resources provided to the population. These ridiculous statistics simply show what they are meant to show, that the "West" is so utterly wonderful when we all know that the corruption practised there is of orders of magnitude higher than in the developing world. And legalised too by governments such as the one in the UK which thieves from the poor to give to the rich.

I'm just going to ask if you travelled on the Met line in London up to 2 years ago. Where were your voice-systems for the blind? They didn't exist. Where were the illuminated displays for the deaf? They didn't exist. They still don't exist on some Underground trains. A big fat zero. No announcements either from the driver unless there was an unconscionable delay if you were lucky. Ever been on a routemaster bus on route 73 to Stoke Newington up till 3 or 4 years ago? Or route 38? Not a single announcement or display, not even facilities for making announcements, which is worse than on a train as there is virtually no chance of  being able to see the writing on the bus stops indicating locations and if you're blind, even worse, well tough cheddar. And you are criticising a developing country for not having them on an ancient system bequeathed by the French, some of which was not even intended for passengers? Give me a break, please.

As for voice-overs, I clearly remember travelling from Tangiers to Casablanca in the 80s and heard the stations being announced by the driver as we pulled in. That was on more than one journey and I hear them on every journey I take. If you didn't hear them, you were inattentive or maybe you needed those illuminated displays.

cecuile.So, the French colonists set  up the train network for their convenience and profit, not for the people of Morocco. ONCF now belongs to Morocco. Why does it not revamp the system to serve its population?

The system has been and is being revamped! The El Jadida line now has 2 tracks - 7 years ago it just had one. Stations are being renewed/rebuilt (Oasis, En Nassim) and extra ones have been actually built (Facultes). A brand new station is arising at Bouskoura to replace the old French-era building.  Electronic destination boards are at many stations. New lines are being built.

However, the sort of thing the other contributor is talking about does not stand a chance. A developing country will not revamp its fleet of trains at a cost of 10s of millions of Euros so that they have automatic station recognition and causing an automatic announcement to come on for the blind - the driver does that already or there are simply recorded voice announcements in MSA and French which he presses a button for. The ONCF is not going to install electronic displays on its old trains for the deaf either. It's absolutely ridiculous to think that they would do so. They didn't even do this in the UK, for heaven's sake! The trains were simply taken out of commission slowly but surely and replaced with trains with these gadgets. On some Tube lines, trains were refurbished and got the gadgets, but on others it didn't happen until the fleet was replaced.

Have you been to the fantastic new station at Casa Port?

Have a look at the ONCF page to see the developments, new lines and so on.

Well, you could have knocked me down with a feather! Up to casa today on the train and the display boards inside the carriages of the double-decker trains, which have been stuck on the formula ONCF for years were actually announcing the next station in both Arabic and French.

The voice announcements were the same as ever - I suspect that they are not triggered by an approaching station, but by the driver pressing a button.

I do understand that the revamp would have limitations. (I was not thinking in terms of automatic devices for the blind!) But I'm glad to hear that there IS a revamp.. A nice thing.

Now  if I may switch to another nice thing about Morocco:
the new Musée Mohammed VI  d'Art Moderne et Contemporain, in Rabat:
I like the architecture, both traditional and modern in feeling. And the inaugural exposition, 1914-2014, is exciting, informative, well organized. I spent 2 enjoyable days viewing it and learned much about the art scene in Morocco.

- The thread indeed is about trains. However you said "They do as well as they can and as well as can be expected." And I responded by showing you they don't do as well as can be expected due to corruption, and provided the facts. And yes, the "West" is wonderful compared to corruption in Africa. There is no comparison. And unlike Africa, whatever corruption there is in the West, doesn't have the same impact as it has in Africa. You could get away with everything & anything Africa.

- I wasn't talking about illuminated displays. But rather clearly labelled platforms, which were here over a century ago, that I didn't find there. I guess to save them a dirham or two.

- London has an absolutely huge transport system, so please don't expect everything to be ready. Clearly it takes time to ensure each and every train/bus is installed & updated with the latest equipment. It's constantly improving and you can see the changes from time to time. Fortunately it caters to every or most disability. There is a lot of facilities and assistance available, and some of it isn't that costly to implement. They give accessibility for the disabled a lot of priority. The same can't be said for others.

This is the great thg that every one thanks here in morrocco. Trains always on time. Railway station alwys clear. Nd tidy. Civil servent welldressed. Traind inside. Always tide nd cleaner. Really its a good thg

No, xb23, the thread ism not about ONCF, but about nice things about Morocco. Cecile.

Cecile Debraine wrote:

No, xb23, the thread ism not about ONCF, but about nice things about Morocco. Cecile.

In general, it's about "nice things", specifically this thread has been about trains.

Laduqesa:

Throughout Morocco, I've seen so much lack of organization, and professionalism. The Police station, the court, other offices I visited. This has nothing to do with a developing country, but all to do with simply not bothering. This is precisely what I'm talking about on this thread. I remember going to the court with a Moroccan, and even she didn't know where to go. No labels, no clear directions, nothing. So she just went and asked someone. Same with the Police station & the other places we visited. You know Moroccan's transport like the back of your hand because you've been travelling to the country for so many years that you can travel even while blindfold! But for the rest of us who are inexperienced, it can be a painful experience. What I learnt about Morocco, is because they are generally sociable people who are willing to assist, especially foreigners, people learn by asking others and building up experience. That's what basically happened when I was there. She would just ask all the time. And the next time we go, we obviously knew what to do. I think your point on the thread was simply ask people, and add it to your memory. Sure that's one way of learning, but there are many reasons why that won't work for everyone, whether it's a language barrier, disability and so on. And since in my work, "accessibility" is part of what I have to work on, I do see things others may think that it isn't a big deal or worth making a fuss on. So I can understand your frustrations, but I also criticize, and quite rightly, my own country.

all right, already about trains!

Cecile.

Don't you just love the seasonal fruit in Morocco? I mean the fruit you buy off chariots in the streets and locally grown.

That's another good thing about Morocco.

Cecile Debraine wrote:

all right, already about trains!

Okay, fine. Since both of you came up with something, I will step up & come up with something too. I would say a nice aspect of the country is more tolerance & less racism than it's Arab counterparts. I've experienced racism in Arab countries, but less so in Morocco. That's not to say it doesn't exist there, it does of course, but out of the Arab countries, I would probably say it's the least racist and most tolerant, be it religion, race, gender etc

emphatic YES !!!! Cecile.

Yes, although I do not have direct, personal experience of the other  "Arab countries", I do have a sense that Morocco is generally more open and liberal, for example  that  women here have more freedom and initiative and feel more confident, etc.