Considering dating a Vietnamese woman. Some thoughts / questions...

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.p … 89#2404818

Maybe this post will help fill some info.

Good luck buddy! 

So - you're just planning on picking one up en-route? They might have a kiosk at the airport - that'll save some taxi fare!

KiwiJas wrote:

So - you're just planning on picking one up en-route? They might have a kiosk at the airport - that'll save some taxi fare!

Comedian I presume?

Hi Tyrion, welcome .
You ask what's the best way to meet a Vietnamese woman.      There's a few hundred thousand of them in San Jose California.  They are well educated, smart and westernised.  Your an American so theyre in your own backyard.

If you do meet a girl here, how are you going to get her to travel to the Middle East or anywhere else with you. A long distance relationship is against the odds.

According to your profile your in South Korea now.   How did that go. ???

One thing NOT in your favour is your age.  Too young.   They'll think your just a backpacking party boy with no money just passing thru.  And generally that's the case.

They are also very well aware that there's "no fool like an old fool" .  Lonely old men are easy prey.

Get yourself a grey wig, a walking frame and a seeing eye dog.   You'll soon find someone to take care of you.

PS??   Hang on mate.
Did you say you were late 20s early 30s.    Huh.....how does that work?
If you don't even know how old you are no wonder your stuck between that rock and a hard place.

Yogi,

I do not live in the US and will not for atleast the next 4-8 years. I wont be waiting that long to settle down. About to be 30 and time waits for no man.

As for your question of how would I get a girl to travel with me. I have a few options.

1) Meet a girl during the 2 months I am off in the summer and marry.

2) Take a year off and come live in Vietnam and meet a woman and marry.

Yes, I am in Korea atm. I do not fancy Korean women. All the foreign Southeast Asians are already married here.

As for the age, I am not much concerned with it.

The time frame I have set for myself doesn't leave many options. I will be rolling the dice and hoping for the best.

Edit** I am 29 to be precise.

Why the hurry mate,

Your still only 29.   There are very few mixed relationships here that are successful.   Take your time .   If you try and push yourself into a relationship here or anywhere else your asking for trouble.

The problem here is living with the girl to get to know them properly.  It's frowned upon to live together unmarried, and was illegal up until July 2000.   BUT, the corrupt police seem to think they can shake you down for some cash to allow you to co habitate. . Also the girls family may forbid it. 

I've known several guys that have agreed to marry via online dating sites.  Never met the girl in person.  That's crazy stuff.   

Don't think your getting too old.  I've been to a lot of weddings for guys pushing 60.  (And they've all since crashed) . But at least they got to the alter and had their 15 minutes of fame.   They now have a nice wedding album , and the ex wife has all their money. Ha ha ha ha . 

Listen Tyrion......words of wisdom from Yogi.   

Here's what you do.  Your a young worldly stud.  Correct??
You go to the Middle East, as you planned. Start schmoozing the daughters of those rich Arab oil sheiks and who's a lucky boy.     

Think about it.  In years to come you could be sitting on a camel patrolling your own oil fields. And all thanks to Yogi's intervention into you love life.

Gee, Yogi may even do that himself.   Problem is the women have hairy legs and there's no beer.
Then again I suppose hairy legs won't worry Yogi the bear, and I could forgo beer for honey. 

Let me know when your heading in that direction.

I do not want to be an old father. 35 is the latest I want to be having kids. Want to play basketball,tennis, and be an active father while my kids are young and in their 20's. Not an old grandpa father.

Thus I have a timeline to stick to.

There are many good women here, but foreigners hard to meet them, many of them can't speak English well, always feel shy when talking with strangers. Foreigners seem to be easy to be seduced by a bad beautiful one here than a good one. Because differences of culture, some good girls can't stay with you before you both get married, and it seems strange to foreigners. Bad is good in some ways, but many of them need your money than your love, so need to stay away from them .

Just come here and spend time for that. Don't hurry, you never can plan everything. I know your feelings, because I was like you when I was young, everything like I planned, except children, I can't chose... So let everything be natural, you know, sometimes we want this, but in fact, we have that.

If you are really serious in marrying a woman here, you really need much time for that. Viet men need about 1 year to 2-3 years to get married with a woman, hehe.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

I do not want to be an old father. 35 is the latest I want to be having kids. Want to play basketball,tennis, and be an active father while my kids are young and in their 20's. Not an old grandpa father.

Thus I have a timeline to stick to.

Have you noticed the kids today are getting fatter.   Those phones they play with are taking the place of the tennis racket and basketball.   

Don't worry about trying to keep up.  I'm 53 and my kids can't keep up with me. While I'm swimming, cycling and going to the Gym every day , they spend hours staring at a computer screen. 
And, most "kids" when they hit their late teens don't want to be seen with their parents anyway. It's not "cool "apparently.      However, I've noticed in Asian culture the family unit is a lot closer.

If you rush into a relationship ,have kids and it doesn't work out, you've got young lives turned upside down all because of that Timeline to meet.
Good luck.

There's no hurry.

Yogi007 wrote:

Tyrion Grey wrote:

I do not want to be an old father. 35 is the latest I want to be having kids. Want to play basketball,tennis, and be an active father while my kids are young and in their 20's. Not an old grandpa father.

Thus I have a timeline to stick to.

Have you noticed the kids today are getting fatter.   Those phones they play with are taking the place of the tennis racket and basketball.   

Don't worry about trying to keep up.  I'm 53 and my kids can't keep up with me. While I'm swimming, cycling and going to the Gym every day , they spend hours staring at a computer screen. 
And, most "kids" when they hit their late teens don't want to be seen with their parents anyway. It's not "cool "apparently.      However, I've noticed in Asian culture the family unit is a lot closer.

If you rush into a relationship ,have kids and it doesn't work out, you've got young lives turned upside down all because of that Timeline to meet.
Good luck.

There's no hurry.

53 is still fine. Its not until a man hits 60 that he has reached his Golden / Grandpa years at which point the body starts to decline rapidly.

Its a gamble no doubt. But its a gamble even if you "take your time".

It's nice to hear that you have good impression about Vietnamese girls. However, marriage must come from love and love belongs to fate. You can not choose and arrange your love, or can not give out options or plan for your love. What will be will be.

Phuong Huynh wrote:

It's nice to hear that you have good impression about Vietnamese girls. However, marriage must come from love and love belongs to fate. You can not choose and arrange your love, or can not give out options or plan for your love. What will be will be.

I hear marriages founded on security are quite common in Vietnam.

Love can and does develop.

But yes, being founded in love is the optimal way.

Hope you can find your love here. Good luck!

Tyrion - I see a train a  coming, coming down the tracks and it does not look good.  Based on your question, you are a train wreck waiting to happen.  I have seen it many many times.  Guy has fascination with foreign women, meets foreign woman, foreign woman tells him what he wants to hear (believe me, Vietnamese girls are experts at making you feel like a king both emotionally and physically), he falls in love fast, when she does not get what she wants, the train wreck comes like a tornado. 

You need to slow down my friend and take a few deep breaths.  I dated a few vietnamese girls before i met my wife and trust me, in the beginning, i was so happy and thought i died and went to heaven.  But, as time passes, you get to know the other person,, who they are and see if the 2 of you are on the same page.  Although I have fond memories of ex girlfriends, they are night and day different from my wife.  Do not get me wrong, I think all of them are decent people, but circumstances (e.g., very poor, divorced with young children, spouse that abuses them but the families will not allow her to divorce or divorced and no children, but lives alone because of the shame on the family)   in their lives in VN have an impact on their motivations for finding a husband.  Each of us are different and I do not know anything about you because it is possible that you can fall in love, even if she has a lot of baggage.  For me, I was willing to wait, take my time, no timeline, and if emotional love did not happen, I was more than happy with that and would stay single.  No way was i going to be in a relationship based on finances.

Granted, since you do not live in VN, finding a good girl is not going to be easy.  Like others have said, you are and will be an easy target for bad girls.  Your issue is that you will not be able to tell the good from the bad.  I have met many good girls, but they do not speak english.  My suggestion, if you know people in Vietnam, try to meet some of their single friends.  if you do not know anyone in VN, i suggest you come to an Expat.com gathering to meet some of the people here and maybe you might get lucky!  Yes, they will have friends as well.  You could try online dating, but that is hit or miss but no matter what, you need to slow down and take your time.  Get to know her, know her family, her friends, her coworkers, where she study, what does she do day to day?  I would try and meet many many girls so you can see different personalities and get a better understanding of VN girls.  Like anywhere in the world, there are good and bad.  To find the good, you need to take your time, no matter how wonderful she makes you feel. 

For example, when my wife and I were just friends, as time went on (like 3 months) we both knew where this was going, she asked me if I wanted her to be my girlfriend.  I did not hesitate and said NO.  Let me tell you, that made her completely crazy about me!  It was not the right time and I let her know.  Afterwards, when all was good many months later, she told me that if I would have said yes, I was history.  We laugh about it today.

I do wish you the best of luck, but based on your question, I see you falling in love really fast and crashing really fast.  A building is not built in a day, week or month, it takes time.  I firmly believe you need a strong foundation that takes time to secure and needed when you have problems.  A weak foundation will crumble as fast as it was created, if any.

Your desperate plan will most likely end in disaster. The reasons are fall too numerous and too complicated to go into here. I suggest you spend a least a year here getting to know the people and culture. The odds will still be against you, but you'll have a better chance.

Adhome01 wrote:

Your desperate plan will most likely end in disaster. The reasons are fall too numerous and too complicated to go into here. I suggest you spend a least a year here getting to know the people and culture. The odds will still be against you, but you'll have a better chance.

Yes, I am quite aware of the risk involved. The best I could do would be spending a year there.

I know quite the number of Vietnamese women married to Korean men here in Korea. They genuinely care for their marriage. In many cases if the man would be kind and love them they would in return. Hell, many of them do it without it. A Vietnamese wife is much harder to bed than their Filipina counterparts.
.
When your options are limited and the clock is ticking, we are sometimes forced to roll the dice.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

Yogi007 wrote:

Tyrion Grey wrote:

I do not want to be an old father. 35 is the latest I want to be having kids. Want to play basketball,tennis, and be an active father while my kids are young and in their 20's. Not an old grandpa father.

Thus I have a timeline to stick to.

Have you noticed the kids today are getting fatter.   Those phones they play with are taking the place of the tennis racket and basketball.   

Don't worry about trying to keep up.  I'm 53 and my kids can't keep up with me. While I'm swimming, cycling and going to the Gym every day , they spend hours staring at a computer screen. 
And, most "kids" when they hit their late teens don't want to be seen with their parents anyway. It's not "cool "apparently.      However, I've noticed in Asian culture the family unit is a lot closer.

If you rush into a relationship ,have kids and it doesn't work out, you've got young lives turned upside down all because of that Timeline to meet.
Good luck.

There's no hurry.

53 is still fine. Its not until a man hits 60 that he has reached his Golden / Grandpa years at which point the body starts to decline rapidly.

Its a gamble no doubt. But its a gamble even if you "take your time".

They are saying 80 is the new 60 now.
I've been married to both, Filipino, ( 5yrs, with 6 mths in that shithole ), and Vn, ( 6 yrs, and just hanging in there after 5 yrs in this place ), I wouldn't recommend either, Japanese or an older Sth Korean woman would be the one I'd go, if I had to do it again, more cultured, ( manners ) and respect their husbands, only problem is the cold, ( weather that is ), and much more expensive to live in these countries.

bluenz wrote:

They are saying 80 is the new 60 now.
I've been married to both, Filipino, ( 5yrs, with 6 mths in that shithole ), and Vn, ( 6 yrs, and just hanging in there after 5 yrs in this place ), I wouldn't recommend either, Japanese or an older Sth Korean woman would be the one I'd go, if I had to do it again, more cultured, ( manners ) and respect their husbands, only problem is the cold, ( weather that is ), and much more expensive to live in these countries.

I wouldnt go believing all the sayings. Unless they come up with some new medicine to delay aging.

Have you spent much time in Korea? Korean women repulse me. They are some of the most shallow, vain, materialistic, women i've ever encountered. I've traveled a great deal, so thats saying something. Cant comment on the Japanese though.

Adhome01 wrote:

Your desperate plan will most likely end in disaster. The reasons are fall too numerous and too complicated to go into here. I suggest you spend a least a year here getting to know the people and culture. The odds will still be against you, but you'll have a better chance.

Yep, and those odds are getting longer.
Women here are very good at profiling you.  They can smell desperation and vulnerability in their prey.
You've heard the saying "they must have saw me coming" when guys get ripped off.
Well guess what buddy, .....
If that's your real name Tyrion Grey , they'll know your on your way.
These forums can be read by anyone.
If you get a PM from people wanting to welcome you to town, be careful.

PS.  Did you say shallow, vain & materialistic about the Korean girls.......this will be a home away from home for ya.     Ha ha ha .

Tyrion Grey wrote:

bluenz wrote:

They are saying 80 is the new 60 now.
I've been married to both, Filipino, ( 5yrs, with 6 mths in that shithole ), and Vn, ( 6 yrs, and just hanging in there after 5 yrs in this place ), I wouldn't recommend either, Japanese or an older Sth Korean woman would be the one I'd go, if I had to do it again, more cultured, ( manners ) and respect their husbands, only problem is the cold, ( weather that is ), and much more expensive to live in these countries.

I wouldnt go believing all the sayings. Unless they come up with some new medicine to delay aging.

Have you spent much time in Korea? Korean women repulse me. They are some of the most shallow, vain, materialistic, women i've ever encountered. I've traveled a great deal, so thats saying something. Cant comment on the Japanese though.

Sayings like, " you are what you eat ", and " as young as you feel ", are quite true. 
I've met a few Sth Korean women, but from lower income families, they were the same as the many Japanese I've met, perfect manners, if you've never been to VN before you're in for one hell of a culture shock, i.e,( at the table, when I was a child my father used to say , " I want to see you eating, NOT what you are eating. " ). but if you read many of the threads on here, they go into VN " culture " and habits in more detail. But then again , it depends on if YOU were brought up or dragged up, some Foreigners fit in here quite well.
As Yogi suggested , sounds like you are wasting your time looking for a " bride " in VN. ( Cellphones are also mirrors for them here, the selfie capital of  S.E Asia ).

I have been to Vietnam as well as almost all the Asian countries minus a few.

Marriage is a coin flip no matter how you do things. In the West your marriage has a 50% chance of success even if you take your time etc.

Id wager, getting a Vietnamese woman on the whim and treating her good would be a safer investment. I am pleasantly surprised chatting with some Vietnamese married women in Korea. They are / were quite dedicated to their insufferable Korean husbands.

Who knows

Tyrion Grey wrote:

I have been to Vietnam as well as almost all the Asian countries minus a few.

Marriage is a coin flip no matter how you do things. In the West your marriage has a 50% chance of success even if you take your time etc.

Id wager, getting a Vietnamese woman on the whim and treating her good would be a safer investment. I am pleasantly surprised chatting with some Vietnamese married women in Korea. They are / were quite dedicated to their insufferable Korean husbands.

Who knows

Yes, it's a lottery either way. Many marriages fail in either countries. Can also depend on where you live. Many VN girls go to Korea as bought wife's, arranged through brokers here,  many are abused, ( some even killed ), most do it to help their families here, and are usually poor country girls.

You are in Korea but found out Korean women don't suit you. Time to move on. I assume you are going to the Gulf for the money. Yet you would like to meet Vietnamese women. So I am confused by your priorities. According to wikipedia there are over 2 million OFWs in Saudi and the Emirates. You stand a good change to bump into single filipinas of all ages there, without being in the Philippines where there are few jobs for foreign English teachers. Fine, you can do that for a year, find out if filipinas are a good fit for you.

But you are asking here about Vietnamese women. If you are interested in more traditional Vietnamese women (not the Americanized ones in the US) then doesn't it make sense to cancel your middle east contract, and go to work at the source? Teach at an international school here, sacrifice your inflated Saudi salary to pursue your romantic dreams. Give it one year in Viet Nam. Maybe you will find that Vietnamese women do not actually suit your personality; you will still have time on your biological clock (yes men can have this too, to meet a woman your age, or to still be young when you have a family).

How to meet them? There will be female staff at the school for starters. Tell married Vietnamese to introduce you to their single friends. Make friends with other teachers, you'll have a built-in network. Go to a Vietnamese language school, meet English-speaking teachers there, and learn some Vietnamese for reaching women who are English-shy. Advertise for language exchange partners. Be an English tutor, no, be a free tutor (sacrifice remember?) on this forum, you will be really busy. The only way to find the right person is to meet many, and hope for sparks.

. "You stand a good change to bump into single filipinas of all ages there, without being in the Philippines where there are few jobs for foreign English teachers. Fine, you can do that for a year, find out if filipinas are a good fit for you."
There are heaps of filipino's trying to teach English here, no need to go the M.E to meet them.

tiny_ha wrote:

*******

I knew it wouldnt take too long for this to happen

Yogi007 wrote:

tiny_ha wrote:

*****)

I knew it wouldnt take too long for this to happen

Is it a woman?

bluenz wrote:

Yogi007 wrote:

tiny_ha wrote:

******

I knew it wouldnt take too long for this to happen

Is it a woman?

Who knows, I think this guy would marry anyone.
Tyrion, ya wanna roll the dice and flip that coin....heres your first chance.

But you might have to flip more than coins. Tell her youve got a gold credit card.

Getting married is like playing game . If you are lucky, you will meet a good one, even you don't need so much time. But because you are foreigners, you are the target of many bad girls, so need to know more about your woman before you want to get married!

You know, Vietnamse men is very strict when they want to get married with women:

- How is her family? Family is original for everything. If she has a good family, even poor, her parents taught her well.

- What is her degree? I know, Vietnamese degree is nothing in the world, but at least, 4 years in the university, she had to try all her best go get that degree.

- What is her job? I know, money is not the problem with some foreigners, you don't need your gf's money, but at least, if she has a GOOD job, it means she can live independently, not rely on anyone else.

- How is the personality, if she is gentle, not so headstrong? Some women are always wrong about STRONG and HEADSTRONG. You respect her personality, but sometimes its not enough with her! I teach in university, I observe my student, if someone is headstrong always, it means she is selfish too.

- And I am sure, almost Vietnamse never accept to marry a woman that he met in bars! And young women, where is her money to go to bar, if her family is poor, and she still hasn't earn money yet? Normally, if her family is rich, her parents never give money to a good young girl to go to bar!

I don't know, but I feel foreigners don't care so much about that! With foreigners, I think they are so open-minded, it makes many women like them than Vietnamese men! And they accept many things that Vietnamese men never accept, so women can live more widely, but also naughty if she doesn't know where to stop!
Just my opinion...

gobot wrote:

You are in Korea but found out Korean women don't suit you. Time to move on. I assume you are going to the Gulf for the money. Yet you would like to meet Vietnamese women. So I am confused by your priorities. According to wikipedia there are over 2 million OFWs in Saudi and the Emirates. You stand a good change to bump into single filipinas of all ages there, without being in the Philippines where there are few jobs for foreign English teachers. Fine, you can do that for a year, find out if filipinas are a good fit for you.

But you are asking here about Vietnamese women. If you are interested in more traditional Vietnamese women (not the Americanized ones in the US) then doesn't it make sense to cancel your middle east contract, and go to work at the source? Teach at an international school here, sacrifice your inflated Saudi salary to pursue your romantic dreams. Give it one year in Viet Nam. Maybe you will find that Vietnamese women do not actually suit your personality; you will still have time on your biological clock (yes men can have this too, to meet a woman your age, or to still be young when you have a family).

How to meet them? There will be female staff at the school for starters. Tell married Vietnamese to introduce you to their single friends. Make friends with other teachers, you'll have a built-in network. Go to a Vietnamese language school, meet English-speaking teachers there, and learn some Vietnamese for reaching women who are English-shy. Advertise for language exchange partners. Be an English tutor, no, be a free tutor (sacrifice remember?) on this forum, you will be really busy. The only way to find the right person is to meet many, and hope for sparks.

I will be moving on from Korea come next summer/fall when the new school year begins. Praise the Gods. I have 2 more months on this contract, then I am going to Philippines for 1-2 months to relax then back to the USA to see family and finalize some documents for my license / certification.

As you noticed, my priorities are a bit intermingled. I want both now.

How difficult is it to procure a job at an international school in Vietnam? I cant imagine it being easy. International Schools generally do 2 year contracts btw.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

I

Marriage is a coin flip no matter how you do things. In the West your marriage has a 50% chance of success even if you take your time etc.

Id wager, getting a Vietnamese woman on the whim and treating her good would be a safer investment. I am pleasantly surprised chatting with some Vietnamese married women in Korea. They are / were quite dedicated to their insufferable Korean husbands.

Who knows

The odds of a foreign relationship working out here are less than 50%. I think an accurate figure would be around 20% or less. With your naive, "white knight" attitude, you can knock off another 10%. Just being honest.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

gobot wrote:

You are in Korea but found out Korean women don't suit you. Time to move on. I assume you are going to the Gulf for the money. Yet you would like to meet Vietnamese women. So I am confused by your priorities. According to wikipedia there are over 2 million OFWs in Saudi and the Emirates. You stand a good change to bump into single filipinas of all ages there, without being in the Philippines where there are few jobs for foreign English teachers. Fine, you can do that for a year, find out if filipinas are a good fit for you.

But you are asking here about Vietnamese women. If you are interested in more traditional Vietnamese women (not the Americanized ones in the US) then doesn't it make sense to cancel your middle east contract, and go to work at the source? Teach at an international school here, sacrifice your inflated Saudi salary to pursue your romantic dreams. Give it one year in Viet Nam. Maybe you will find that Vietnamese women do not actually suit your personality; you will still have time on your biological clock (yes men can have this too, to meet a woman your age, or to still be young when you have a family).

How to meet them? There will be female staff at the school for starters. Tell married Vietnamese to introduce you to their single friends. Make friends with other teachers, you'll have a built-in network. Go to a Vietnamese language school, meet English-speaking teachers there, and learn some Vietnamese for reaching women who are English-shy. Advertise for language exchange partners. Be an English tutor, no, be a free tutor (sacrifice remember?) on this forum, you will be really busy. The only way to find the right person is to meet many, and hope for sparks.

I will be moving on from Korea come next summer/fall when the new school year begins. Praise the Gods. I have 2 more months on this contract, then I am going to Philippines for 1-2 months to relax then back to the USA to see family and finalize some documents for my license / certification.

As you noticed, my priorities are a bit intermingled. I want both now.

How difficult is it to procure a job at an international school in Vietnam? I cant imagine it being easy. International Schools generally do 2 year contracts btw.

Used to be easier if you had a white face, now not so much, but make sure you come here on a DN, ( business Visa first ), many jobs online , ESL 101, Jobs77, Craigslist, etc, heaps of jobs in Hanoi. Only need a Uni Cert or 5 yrs provable teaching experience. There are a few threads on here re teaching .

I will be a certified teacher. Not a backpacking english language teacher. Not sure id want to teach ESL for low pay after spending the time and money to get my teaching license.

Guys, some of you seem to have bad experience about Vietnamese girls. But "some" doesn't mean "all". Don't say as it's a conclusion about us. In a poor or developing countries, you sometimes face that such stupid things. But you should understand why those things happened? Who and which type of girls you've met? Some foreign man come to a relationship with a Vietnamese girls on their own purpose. It's not who being good or bad here, it's just who say out or not. In the other hand, you rarely have change to meet good girls because they don't have time spend with you as the jobless or hunting girls. We've in traditional country, before our own small family, we have our big family with parents, brothers, sisters... Almost the time we have to work in the company, so a few free hours are really precious to us. We just take it for our family, serious friendship and relationship.
What's easy come, it's easy go. Don't use your bad experience to hurt the others self-esteem.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

I will be a certified teacher. Not a backpacking english language teacher. Not sure id want to teach ESL for low pay after spending the time and money to get my teaching license.

Yes, I'm sure being a Certified English teacher teaching 4-5 yr olds will be a great advantage. What you mean by low pay?

bluenz wrote:

Yes, I'm sure being a Certified English teacher teaching 4-5 yr olds will be a great advantage. What you mean by low pay?

Oh God no. One couldnt pay me enough to teach preschool or elementary aged kids.

Advantage or not depends on various factors and personal preference.

Not sure about Vietnam, but good International Schools in some countries pay a decent amount more and provide better incentives than basic ESL jobs that require no degree or license.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

bluenz wrote:

Yes, I'm sure being a Certified English teacher teaching 4-5 yr olds will be a great advantage. What you mean by low pay?

Oh God no. One couldnt pay me enough to teach preschool or elementary aged kids.

Advantage or not depends on various factors and personal preference.

Not sure about Vietnam, but good International Schools in some countries pay a decent amount more and provide better incentives than basic ESL jobs that require no degree or license.

Yes, kids that age should be taught by women, ( apparently all VN fathers do around the house is play with their kids ), but it's ok if they really want to learn. ( but not less than 5 yr olds )  There are no, ( safe ) teaching jobs in VN without a Degree of TEFL cert, especially International schools, but they seem to be " flexible " with their definition of NES though. I think making more than a VN English teacher makes in a whole day,  in less than 1 hour, is good money, just have to remember where you are.

International Schools (good ones) generally do not accept TEFL certificates / degrees. Normally only take licensed educators holding certifications in elementary education, middle and high school subjects such as math, science, history, etc.

Tyrion Grey wrote:

International Schools (good ones) generally do not accept TEFL certificates / degrees. Normally only take licensed educators holding certifications in elementary education, middle and high school subjects such as math, science, history, etc.

In VN they can/do put the name " International " school in front of any school, would you consider a chain of schools throughout VN, as being an international school, if it was based in Thailand? They must think it's an " International " school if they have a NES?  Genuine licensed educators, i.e Uni Degree in English, are a rarity here, more likely to be Filipino's, or European TOEFL qualified teachers. They don't care what your Degree is as long as you have one, because that's the law here. Have a look at some of the positions advertised on the net for VN. They only want us to teach English, ( along with VN English teachers ). But occasionally you might see a position for a Math teacher.