Property prices in Hungary

I live in a village in rural, western Hungary. So my answers relate to that area. I have participated in four property purchases in Hungary.

Priscilla wrote:

What about you? Where do you live now?

That is described in my testimonial.

Priscilla wrote:

Is it a place you would recommend?

Frankly, and offhand for most expats, I would say: No.

Not that it is not a lovely place to live (because it is). But living in a rural area has both obvious and hidden issues that may end up being more trouble than they are worth.

For example, there will be fewer expats here. So fewer who speak your language. If one likes an active social life, that may be a problem. Unless you speak Hungarian many things you do on a daily basis will be more difficult due to language issues. You will have to find a local and competent (and I stress the word competent because there are fewer around than you may assume in rural areas) translator or business manager to help you do things like setup power, phone, paying bills. Trying to do this all yourself in a foreign language may be a problem, and you may end up with problems for yourself. For just one example, maybe the person in the electric company's office speaks English, but that does not mean the person who actually comes to hook up your electricity does, and the form he asks you to sign may say he finished successfully, or that there was a problem and you acknowledge that you do not have power now. You would have no idea what you are signing. And if you need to renovate a property... Well that is another can of worms.

Etc. etc. etc.

Priscilla wrote:

Tell us more about the estate market in your district/city/region.

Highly variable. It will depend on what you want to pay and where you want to live.

Priscilla wrote:

And what is the average sale price for an appartment or a house?

Whatever it is, expect to over pay (maybe 40% or more) simply because you are an expat.

Priscilla wrote:

Could you tell us more about local real estate policies/procedures?

It is quite simple. By law, you have to have an attorney handle this for you. The attorney will tell you want you need to know. But... (yes there is a "but"), to protect your rights you have to find a competent attorney. Not all attorneys are created equal. First we had a lousy attorney (who spoke English), but now have a good one (who only speaks Hungarian). So be aware, and shop around, and maybe consider you may need an interpreter to get a good attorney.

Priscilla wrote:

What about property tax or residency tax in Hungary?

Will depend to some extent on local ordinance, but normally it is mostly determined by the price of the property at the time of sale.

In my experience,  houses an hours drive out of Budapest,  in most villages are very inexpensive to purchase and they don't tend to go up in value because so much of the countryside is underpopulated and neglected. I had no aspirations to purchase in the more tourist area because it was too far away from the airport and seemed overpriced.

  I was lucky to purchase two cottage plots,  one cottage and one barn still standing, all fenced in in a forest village near jazsbereny in 2010.

At the time it cost the same as buying a sited caravan in Lincolnshire in the uk, but with very low overheads in comparison and mine forever. It currently costs 60£ a month to pay all of the bills including electricity,  alarm,  calor gas, insurance,  council and village tax. I burn my own wood and pump up the water.
Since then I have discovered that my two acres of community forest has been taken over by the forestry commission but I am more than occupied in my four acre garden.
I have also spent the equivalent of half a caravan on repairs,  better stoves,  glassing in my veranda with new windows and doors,  a new ceiling and maintenance. I have also invested in making a pond and planting more fruit trees.
People are very friendly and helpful in the countryside and there are several bars near the tanya that are very welcoming and some small supermarkets near the village centre and railway station. The train into budapest takes just over an hour. English is not widely spoken in the area and it has been difficult so far to get Internet.
As I got nearer to stopping full time employment I purchased an apartment in District 9 Budapest in 2013.  This has become my main home now that I no longer work and I share the tanya with other people who enjoy the countryside, gardening,  bird watching and being away from it all. 
My street is  a lovely area just five minutes walk from the city centre and I really enjoy my time here.  The city is full of interesting galleries,  parks,  music venues,  historic buildings,  coffee shops and restaurants.  Also there is potential for me to earn from self employment within the English speaking community.
Budapest rents and purchases have increased tremendously in the last three years so I am very grateful that I bought my apartment when I did because I like to have a lot of space and currently a small studio now costs as much to buy as my two bedroomed place.
In comparison my apartment here cost less than half my old place in Dorset and it is over twice the size and a quarter of the running costs.

Very interesting read.  I have postponed buying in Budapest as clearly the pricing is 30-40% over fair market value.  When the average Hungarian makes apx 600€/month, seeing prices like 35-40m HUF for a 70m2 in V or VI ker makes me say wait for the recession. This is way overpriced.

Once again great advice!

anns wrote:

Since then I have discovered that my two acres of community forest has been taken over by the forestry commission

I think this in an important issue for anyone thinking of buying in rural areas of Hungary. Far too often in rural areas property is "group" or "community" owned. And if the majority of the owners decided to do something with that property, then those in the minority have no recourse against the majority decision.

All I can say to this is avoid any property that is community owned. Only consider property that you can own 100% and outright privately.

However, just to clarify a legal issue, "taken" over for community (i.e. group owned) property can not happen in Hungary without compensation for all owners, except in very unique cases (such as the majority owner decides to turn a forest into a reserve where you can no longer log and get payment profits from the wood extraction). The "forestry commissions" in Hungary are private, not for profit KFT companies, in each region and they must typically own the land (in the majority) in question to affect its status. National law can alter this of course. Normally, a "take over" will require a fair market value compensation of the property for all owners.

In short,  no one in Hungary can take over any land which you have legally and properly been registered as owning in the land office as an owner or partial owner without compensation.

anns wrote:

but I am more than occupied in my four acre garden. .

This may be simply a difference of opinion, but 4 acres (1.6 Hectares) I would call a small farm rather than a garden.

blonder wrote:

I have postponed buying in Budapest as clearly the pricing is 30-40% over fair market value.

And that is the real issue here.

An expat should not really compare what something costs in their home country to what prices are locally.

Foe example, someone claiming they got a good deal on a house costing just 50% of the cost in their home country may be misleading. Especially if the actual fair market value of a house locally is actually only a smaller fraction of the price the expat paid. The locals just pocket their extra cash and exit laughing up their sleeve at the expat. And the over paying expat just affected the property prices for other expats as well (as the locals then refuse to sell for market value, expecting another overpaying expat "sugar daddy" to show up).

As I said at my blog:

Being from “out of town” and thus overcharged is not a Hungarian novelty as Mr Blandings discovered (great to listen to it all, but skip to minute 10:15 for “standard top gouge price to city slickers”).

The trick is to negotiate. And doing good business and negotiation one can draw down that over priced cost a great deal. But if not (and Hungarians can be very stubborn about lowering their prices), then just walk away from the deal.

anns wrote:

I have also spent the equivalent of half a caravan on repairs

For what it is worth, "half a caravan" is not an internationally known unit of cash or currency. Can you elaborate?

For example, our house renovation costs were about 5 Million Forint (16,000 EUR -- at the international conversion rate at the time we renovated).

But I also did a lot of the the interior renovation myself, which saved a lot on labor costs.

Wow you paid a lot of money.
  Hope it was worth it.
Costs can also be measured in Mars bars.. . 

I'm just looking it up now.
Yes I have looked them up and currently they fall within the range of 10.000 £ and 20.000 in the area where I had viewed six years ago.
After 20 years on a caravan  site owners usually have to replace them.  So the cheaper the older.
Also there are site fees to pay.

I therefore decided that my hungarian tanya was a much better,  cheaper and permanent option.
Besides it is very windy on that particular area of Lincolnshire coast and I have curly hair.

Irritating to some but I prefer to keep my precise financial details private. And my exact address.
But now as in the past,   little Hungarian countryside properties in non touristic areas and not close to Budapest are very cheap for people who have worked in professions in the West.

klsallee wrote:

....In short,  no one in Hungary can take over any land which you have legally and properly been registered as owning in the land office as an owner or partial owner without compensation...

There are certain cases where ownership can be changed under the laws of "adverse possession".  But these are few and far between - for example a piece of land which cannot be reached without crossing someone else's property or if it's been looked after for X years etc.  But as noted the land registry entries are definitive. 

Mrs Fluffy and I "won" our boundary dispute at the land registry recently (October 2016).  I put the "won" in quotes because there's 30 days for the administrative notice to be issued and 15 days for appeal.  We were lucky because the opposition didn't turn up.  So now we have the boundary confirmed (actually changed/corrected to correct the anomaly).    If the land registry had tried to alter the land area by siding with the neighbours, they would have had to cough up the loss of our land.  There was little they could do other than agree with us and make it formal.  We're pretty happy with the result.  Enforcing it is another thing.

anns wrote:

Wow you paid a lot of money.  Hope it was worth it.

Our renovation efforts are public:

https://stcoemgen.com/tag/renovating-2/

Now can you show us all your renovations so everyone here can compare? After all, not all renovations are equal in price or quality. And I am willing to let this community judge.

anns wrote:

Costs can also be measured in Mars bars

Mars bars are pretty consistent between countries.

But a caravan (also known as a travel trailer to Americans) can range from a broken down joke for a few hundred dollars to an Airstream Land Yacht for $150,000. (As an American, I am using US Dollars ... use oanda.com to convert)

So, again, can you give an honest price range that others can relate to or not?

fluffy2560 wrote:

Mrs Fluffy and I "won" our boundary dispute at the land registry recently (October 2016).

Congratulations!!!! 

klsallee wrote:

anns wrote:

I have also spent the equivalent of half a caravan on repairs

For what it is worth, "half a caravan" is not an internationally known unit of cash or currency. Can you elaborate?

For example, our house renovation costs were about 5 Million Forint (16,000 EUR -- at the international conversion rate at the time we renovated).

But I also did a lot of the the interior renovation myself, which saved a lot on labor costs.

Jeez, that's nothing.  16K EUR is probably  about 1 caravan. I can introduce that other unit of currency, the Park Home.  I think our renovations will cost about  50% of decently located Park Homes on the South Coast.   Probably about 6 caravans to a Park Home.

(Note: a Park Home is a large but somewhat flimsy fixed caravan/trailer, usually on a rented site, typically on the South Coast of England.  Usually thought of as prefab building with a somewhat dubious quality).

fluffy2560 wrote:

16K EUR is probably  about 1 caravan.

Muchas gracias. 

@Priscilla

Thank you for the interesting topic.

As landlord I've been watching the Budapest residential property market for 5 years. In fact, it having been beaten down was one of my reasons for moving here at the time. The rationale was that Eastern European countries leaving the communist aftermath behind and reorienting themselves toward 'the West' would offer huge opportunities regarding property investment.

Hungarian property was dragged down with the so-called 'crisis' in 2008, exacerbated by extraordinary leverage through mis-sold foreign-currency denominated mortgages. Hungarian Forint lost 30% in 2011, Property prices kept falling until the low point in 2013 around the Cyprus crisis. Since then, Budapest saw an *average* increase of 15% p.a.

Housing market recovery was initiated in late 2012 with the Magyar Nemzeti Bank driving interest rates down from 7.5% to 2% in the space of only 2 years, and further until to today's 1.35%.

Also it is an empirical rule that every time the stock market slumps, proceeds are being channelled into property. The latest push on Bp property took place early this year (2016). So-called 'nagypolgári' old-style 80-120 years old flats saw prices increase to 450.000 Ft/sqm, from 350.000 last year, and 300.000 two years ago.

Another issue: Recently some rating agencies lifted Hungary back to investment grade, from junk status, albeit at the lowest possible entry.

Recovery takes place in phases, (1) small flats rise first, followed by (2) mid-sized, and later (3) large flats above 100 sqm, then (4) commercial property and (5) family homes, accompanied by increasing building activity.

A standard 50-sqm 2-room panel flat in sought-after area was roughly 10 MFt still in 2014. Today we're talking twice that. Two years ago, a 67-sqm 3-room panel looked expensive at 18 MFt, This year the price gap between supposedly cheaper concete panel and supposedly more expensive brick buildings has closed.

@blonder

You're right, mid-sized flats in the 'touristic' center of Bp are that expensive now (ca. 35 MFt). But what are you waiting for? Recession? What recession? The Hungarian market has only started. For comparison: The UK property market bottomed out in 1994. A semi-detached house on London's outskirts bought in 1998 sold at twice the price 6 years later. The market kept moving on for another decade. Well, Bp is not London, and Ft is not £, but clearly we've seen phases (1) and (2) pass in Bp. Those waves behave like water ripples, as

@anns

stated, a bit outside Bp you can find more affordable accommodation and sit back and wait for the wave to lift your house value. However, this reminds me of another issue: CSOK, the latest government housing support plan for young families, ideally with three or more kids. Certainly this was another price driver this year, although it concerns chiefly new-built property.

Personally I prefer the greener Buda side (districts 1, 2, 3, 11, 12, 22) over the congested, in parts quite dirty, Pest side. All the years my impression was that Buda offers better value-for-money. Overseas investors as well as tourists seem to ignore that part of the town. If pressed I'd choose the up-and-coming 9th district on the Pest side.

Rent levels: Standard unfurnished 50-sqm 2-room panels now go for 100k++ Ft/month. Consider 2.000 Ft/sqm/month a realistic base. Interestingly, barely noticeable difference between furnished (bútorozott) as opposed to unfurnished (bútorozatlan), consider 2.500 Ft/sqm/month fair value for the city area. What some landlords let as 'bútorozott' makes you wonder whether the toilet bowl counts as extra fitting.

Fees on property purchase (stamp duty) are 4% of contractual price. Do abstain from 'under-the-counter' deals, as elevated tax on profit would hit you hard should you need to sell before the respective 5-year tax taper period ends. Lawyers fees vary between 0.5 and 1.25%. Heed advice from

@klsallee

who recommends shopping around, there's huge competition out there. Find one who is, first and importantly, specialising in residential property, not company or commercial property (check their website) and, second, if possible, proficient in your language, or English at least. You must understand everything that's in the contract, and be knowledgeable enough to discover what is not (yet) in the contract. Even though I translated my contracts into my native language eventually to sign a bilingual document (professional translation offices do a somewhat awkward job), the foreign text does not matter, as generally Hungarian law applies.

Inform yourself thoroughly about rules and regulations for foreigners. For example, we cannot buy arable land. EC citizens can buy unlimited residential property, other foreigners are often advised to found a company. Ask a lawyer.

A final word of caution: Buying 'used' property almost always incurs further costs for renovation, plan for minimum 20% extra. The 5 MFt mentioned elsewhere are quickly used up if you buy a used old flat, exchange the heating system, which now requires by law double-lining the chimney, exchange the dilapidated old windows for nice new wooden ones, have the electrics rewired and a clean paint job done.

Hope this gives you an idea. Happy to help with any further question.
Cheers

Yes I also looked at park homes on the South coast of the UK when I first moved to Dorset in 2006 with my job. They were over 100.000£ then and at that time you could buy two small terraced houses in the Midlands for that amount.
But of course we are more concerned here about Hungarian property. The post above is very informative thank you.

Reading about repairs etc. in Hungary makes me long for my alcoholic BIL, who was my husband's step- bro.
He knew his stuff, was a Hungarian guy who singed up in the old days to do big jobs in Russia for the Rus gov.
He could swing down a gallon of cheap wine, a 12 pack of Coors and still got the job done.
I "imported" him to Calif. in the mid 80's to redo my SF Valley home.
From many stores I see here it seems many of the current contractors couldn't hold a candle to my BIL drinks or no drinks.
Too bad there isn't many "old school" skilled workers around these days.

klsallee wrote:

....But a caravan (also known as a travel trailer to Americans) can range from a broken down joke for a few hundred dollars to an Airstream Land Yacht for $150,000. (As an American, I am using US Dollars ... use oanda.com to convert)

So, again, can you give an honest price range that others can relate to or not?

I'm guessing, hopefully positively that the OP (Anns) would not look at anything less than a Park Home equivalent for comfort.

We could always move onto the Big Mac index which has some credibility/economics behind it.

jurgen_in_bp wrote:

As landlord I've been watching the Budapest residential property market for 5 years.

I agree, generically, with almost everything stated as happened in time described.

But.... Being in the Hungarian property market longer, I disagree with some generic issues as described before this time frame in question. But those are historical issues and thus not really relevant to today's market players. So I only note such disagreements, and also note they are not worth discussing in this thread,

jurgen_in_bp wrote:

A final word of caution: Buying 'used' property almost always incurs further costs for renovation, plan for minimum 20% extra.

Agreed. But I wish to stress the word minimum. It it often more. Too many variables in play to say one way or another. 

fluffy2560 wrote:

I'm guessing, hopefully positively that the OP (Anns) would not look at anything less than a Park Home equivalent for comfort.

That is fine... For all those that know what a Park Home equivalent is.

Expats are International. So we should all, ideally, communicate in International agreed units. For example, I have no idea what a "Park Home equivalent" is exactly.

In other words, not everyone is from the UK or the Commonwealth of Nations.   

Kindly consider us poor slobs from other places in your communications.   

Points noted but just as an individual home seeker,  and not  a landlord or property investor as already noted above I don't publicise all of my personal financial details.
However being in the position to purchase second hand properties in the countryside and city ; on both occasions I was happy enough with the valuations and price paid.

Nevertheless I think it is correct to allow 20% extra on the price for refurbishments.  I had not expected to have so much difficulty in finding skilled people to do the work either.

In my younger years I may have wanted everything perfect ( matching curtains and blinds)....  but now I am just happy as long as everything works  (toilets and heaters).

anns wrote:

Points noted but just as an individual home seeker,  and not  a landlord or property investor as already noted above I don't publicise all of my personal financial details.

Also noted. And I can respect the wish to keep personal issues private. Too much of our lives are public. And maybe that is wrong.

But.... Then be wary of critiquing of others and their expenses if you are not willing to transparently compare your expenses with actual results as well. 

anns wrote:

However being in the position to purchase second hand properties in the countryside and city ; on both occasions I was happy enough with the valuations and price paid.

That is great.

But that is only half the issue.

That is, you being happy with the price you paid is only relevant to you.

If you over paid, and especially if you greatly overpaid,, you may have affected the local property market, if you realize it or not (especially in small markets like rural areas).

In other words, you may be totally happy with your purchase. And you may live a long and happy life on your property. But if you over paid, and if that affected the local property market, anyone after you entering that market may not be happy with you or your actions. It is an issue of self interest versus social and market interest. I am not saying they will curse your name, but it may happen.

Maybe you do not care. Which is also fine. Just saying.

Again,  no need for negative assumptions about my private life.   Or constant bullying questions,  slicing up comments as quotations and snide  remarks about what I have to contribute here. 

If it puts your mind at rest you need to know I paid Hungarian prices for my home and my holiday home.
As discussed in posts  above, the apartment  prices in budapest have risen considerably since I purchased in 2013.  When looking at the price of country properties I have come to the conclusion that in my area prices are much the same as they were when I first purchased.

Maybe you would prefer it if I didn't make a contribution on here but I always stand up to people who have a bullying nature.

You are only one person on here  and any contribution serves the discussion.
Nit picking or trolling  about everything I write  only makes you feel more self important and happy.

I still feel the earth shaking and the 7-8 year cycle of recession is just around the corner.
Way over-priced now and one can't compare UK to BUD.
No country is immune to a recession and that is the buying opportunity I am waiting for.
Now is a sellers market in BUD and not a buyers.

It's difficult not to worry or feel alarmed about the current world financial situation.
I hope new individual and family buyers in Budapest are not overstretching themselves to purchase at these inflated prices because when the crash comes they could lose their homes.
Homes still remain affordable in the rural areas but there are fewer employment opportunities so my American friends may say it's a catch 22.

I am not sure it is a sellers market, maybe for a HUngarian it is.
For us from the US if we sell our flat and put the forints back into dollars, we will loose way too much right now.
The time for us to sell would be when the exchange for dollars is low, if only it would go back down to 168 like when we bought our flat!
We have noticed just since the US elections that they dollar has gone up in exchange value here in HU.
We have "lost" around $6,000 in just 3 weeks time if we had sold right now.
I plan on taking my money and running, not investing again in property.
Don't wish to be stuck with a ton of forints, I want my greenbacks.

" If pressed I'd choose the up-and-coming 9th district on the Pest side."

Yes, I have heard the same thing!

Yes I am in nine and happy to be so. Currently there is a lot of refurbishment activity going on.  Sociological speaking it is filling up with 'hipsters' and therefore becoming very trendy. It's also within the university campus.   It is very close to the river,  five minutes walk to town  and has one long street of restaurants.
I love it and feel very safe and secure here.  Lots of shops because of course I prefer my own coffee and cooking.

anns wrote:

Again,  no need for negative assumptions about my private life.   Or constant bullying questions,  slicing up comments as quotations and snide  remarks about what I have to contribute here.

Well.... To each their own interpretation of course. I, for one, thought this was rather a snide remark:

anns wrote:

Wow you paid a lot of money.
  Hope it was worth it.
Costs can also be measured in Mars bars.. .

But of course.... maybe you did not see it as snide even if I did. Which is fine. But just to point out that your interpretations are not the only ones.   

anns wrote:

If it puts your mind at rest you need to know I paid Hungarian prices for my home and my holiday home.

Or maybe you just think you did..... Since you will not give actual numbers of your expenses, how can we really judge if your opinion is correct or not? The simple answer to that is: no one can.

So we are just suppose to "trust you"?

Sorry... But for me that is not good enough. I am the "Pictures or it did not happen" type of bloke. 

So, again, sorry if you think my comment is "trolling" or "snide". But I feel it is a realistic question and issue, and maybe an obligation, for us commentators to help those reading this thread by providing the facts as we know it and questioning those that do not provide facts. If one is obtuse in their comments, that does not help much for others and I, for one, may question that commenter. And such banter is, quite frankly, certainly part of normal conversation.

Especially in regards to something like property buying, where someone can risk a lot of their own money. We all owe to everyone here to come fast with all the facts and not be vague on issues like what we spent ourselves when buying property. That helps no one. And it may, in fact, hurt a new expat investor here if they make decisions based on incomplete, or maybe erroneous, information.

So, no free rides from me.  Not here. Not on this topic.

anns wrote:

Nit picking or trolling  about everything I write  only makes you feel more self important and happy.

And again.... an ad hominem comment.

Believe it or not, I am not out to troll or critique anyone here in particular. What I do is for, what I believe, is in the best interests of the total https://www.expat.community here. If a person happens to make comments that I disagree with, or, IMHO (in my humble opinion) hurts this community, then I will certainly make a comment or call out that person. So basically, really, nothing personal. And you should not take them personally.

Of course you can disagree with what I think is in the best interest of the community. That is fine. But let us keep person accusations (like claiming someone is trolling) out of the posts. For one thing, that is against the forum guidelines. If you have a problem with my comments, use the "report" option at the right of each post and let the moderators decide.

I have dealt with these Duna Haus irodaban and others and now, as a certified Hungarian citizen, I refuse to be charged 40% plus as a "foreigner" and will make sure when I buy that I am buying at fair market value and not some inflated prices that are made for those with money to burn.  I look at pricing now everywhere and know this equals negotiate it down 30% - 40%.  I was screwed by my naive thinking for 7 years in Slowvakastan in land retribution and finally these past 2 months I could get a great American/Slovak lawyer to kick butt for me and no longer play the role of the Foreigner Fund to give everything to people that try and did scr@w me in the past.  A great lesson in life - words mean nada.  Put it on paper - 2 copies as paper speaks and words mean zero in business deals.  If you want to be pushed around in CEC, people are gladly to do it. I've learned to say in 5 languages, "wait, enough with the bs...here are the papers and sign to show you received them" - life goes on! 

We purchased our 50 sq, meter flat in the center of the 7th district nearly 11 years ago for cash money.
The market was a bit flat lined when we bought, since we were not actually thinking of living in HU we only used the cash we had available at the time.
Didn't really think long term about living in HU full time.
When we were looking at apts. there was hardly nothing to buy in the price range, most were just dark nasty little holes on st. level. We found a bright sunny flat with high ceilings on a higher floor of the house. Have 3 large windows to the street, a nice wide street. Very middle class by HU standards when built in 1900. 4 1/2 meter high ceilings, that's what did it for me, the ceilings and the bright windows.
We live in a brick building near a major Blvd. on a side street.
We paid 10 million at the time, the dollar exchange then when we bought was 200 F per dollar, not 168 which I have quoted before. The dollar did soon drop to 168 after we bought though.
If we sell now, we may double our investment BUT with the forint now being in the 280'-90's we would take a hit when we exchange back to dollars.
The location is OK, not the best or the worst.
However we do know some snobby Hungarian friends from 50 years ago who tease us because they say we live on the wrong side of the Large Bvld. They do not feel comfortable here, whatever... cut them out of my life.
They were lucky enough to be given the money to buy in the 2nd for only 5 million, all about timing, they got lucky with timing.
Just like some have said here about different locations in the UK. yes even in the US a bungalow located on Venice Beach in Calf. is going to cost much more then a 5 bedroom home in Victorville out in the desert.

We barely made any real improvements because nothing was happening in the market for so long.
We also only live here part-time still. About 50-50 between HU and going home for long visits.
I do not feel exactly home anywhere.
I willing to let the next owner enjoy fixing the flat up they way they want it.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We purchased our 50 sq, meter flat in the center of the 7th district nearly 11 years ago for cash money.

Cash is good, if you have it. Banks here do not give good terms.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

When we were looking at apts. there was hardly nothing to buy in the price range, most were just dark nasty little holes on st. level.

An all too common issue here for those that are on a budget.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We found a bright sunny flat with high ceilings on a higher floor of the house. Have 3 large windows to the street, a nice wide street. Very middle class by HU standards when built in 1900. 4 1/2 meter high ceilings, that's what did it for me, the ceilings and the bright windows.

The older buildings are often better. They have "problems" but the design, such as windows and  ceiling are really better. Anything from the communist period should be rejected off hand. IMHO.

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We paid 10 million at the time, the dollar exchange then when we bought was 200 F per dollar, not 168 which I have quoted before. The dollar did soon drop to 168 after we bought though.

Your price information I think will be appreciated by everyone here.

We also bought our main house for 10 M HUF (well actually on paper for 9 M HUF for the property and 1 M HUF for the wine equipment), but we bought when one USD was over 300 HUF. So it really does matter when and in what currency one uses and when. When the dollar crashed to the EUR, I used my EUR accounts to pay for our renovations. Which only goes to show how important it is for expats to keep money in different currencies and not to just have some blood and soil belief in their home country or currencies. I am indeed a citizen of nowhere, and I am, in fact, darn proud of that fact. Up yours Theresa May. 

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

If we sell now, we may double our investment

The cheapest house on our street in the past 5 years sold for 18 M HUF. Most now sell for about 25 M HUF. I think our investment, including renovation is secure. So to some comments here... yes our renovation costs "were worth it". 

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Just like some have said here about different locations in the UK. yes even in the US a bungalow located on Venice Beach in Calf. is going to cost much more then a 5 bedroom home in Victorville out in the desert.

Yep. Those that really understand real estate do not talk in terms of "caravans". 

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We barely made any real improvements because nothing was happening in the market for so long.
We also only live here part-time still. About 50-50 between HU and going home for long visits.
I do not feel exactly home anywhere.
I willing to let the next owner enjoy fixing the flat up they way they want it.

Most renovations will pay for themselves plus more if you want to sell. Really something to consider if you decide to sell. Even a new coat of paint can increase resale value far beyond the painting costs.

klsallee wrote:

.....
Yep. Those that really understand real estate do not talk in terms of "caravans".  ....

It's more local issues of pressure on supply never mind real estate knowledge.

I think it shows how bizarre the market has become in the UK and the impact of house price inflation - something relevant to Hungary at the moment.  Fixed caravans (aka mobile homes) are listed and marketed by real estate agents in the UK and they easily exceed the price of proper bricks and mortar over here in HU.

Nothing could of been stranger then back around 2000 just before and slightly after 9/11 in Vegas.
So many of my co-workers were over extending themselves to buy a huge house or a 2nd or even 3 rd house as an investment.
I know a few people who had 2 full time dealing jobs just to make the payments.
I used to be kind and wake up a few people who were able to catch a 10 min. nap every hour when we got our breaks at work.
They barely got any sleep and their poor faces were worst for wear.Killing themselves for material gain.
When the bubble burst I wonder how many lost it all.
Not many people understood why I would quit a good job every 6 months to a year and go on holiday when all they could think of was buying more houses.
Many I think were jealous that I could walk away from work at any moment if I so chose to. They were totally owned by the co. because of their own greed.
When we bought in HU it was more of a whim , we inherited a tiny bit of money in HU and added the cash we had on hand after living for nearly 20 months in HU on a vacation. Funds were getting low so we only looked at property that we could buy on the spot for cash.
Just our way of doing things, cash always no loans.
Only had a loan once in S. Cal. when we bought a house and even then we put down 1/3 in cash.
Not sure why but we like to out right own our junk and not worry about the bankers, never loved banks much.
Haven't even used a credit card since 1998!
Of course not everyone wants to live outside of the system that much.
If and when we ever get it together and actually put our flat up for sale, we plan on perhaps renting near by, moving out and then giving this old place the once over to make it ready to sell.
Guess we just got used to it being in the condition that it's in, comfy enough for us , we do not  have house parties much these days. No need to impress the Joneses.
I think in the 11 years we have owned this flat we have actually only lived here for less then 5 years in total.

Agreed.  Over extending and need for that bigger house is what makes people house poor.
If you can't afford it with cash - don't buy it!
I have rented my whole life and put all that other money towards travel.
Never wanted to be owned by any company. 
Mid-life, NO regrets for living on an airplane and seeing the world.
No anchor or ball and chain on me to stay in a property.

Yes,I loved living in a nice large house in sunny S. Cal with my very own built in swimming pool and covered patio, lemon trees etc.
One day however I ( maybe I was just having a tantrum) found myself just wishing i was drowned in my pool.
My husband worked so hard and didn't always have the time to hang with me and I was lonely, had credit cards with $10,000 limits on each card,nice car, nice everything and still felt sad.
Now we hang together everyday, all day, maybe too much of a good thing either way is not normal either.
Having the freedom to just pick up and leave anytime is something money can not buy.

I had always hated being tied to a job and to a mortgage. I plan to sell up eventually and have a few mad years travelling  and  spending up to avoid paying for elderly care. Renting property though has become more expensive in most of the major cities. I have particularly noticed that rental costs have risen in central Budapest because I see a number of advertisements in the Facebook groups. This always makes me feel grateful that I purchased when I could because loans are always based on earnings,

We have been "toying" with the idea of buying a small home in HU in the countryside just to have a "safe harbor".
One moment I want to leave and be done with airlines,  etc. and the next I think, why not give HU another chance for a few more "good years".
Our son is a HU citizen but sadly since his divorce from his HU wife he has no interest to move to HU again.
I would love it if he could move here and find work and be happy.
He is a casino manager in Las Vegas, been in the casino industry for years now, always been in some form of management at work though.
Even became the manager of a McDonald's at age 17 after just 3 weeks on the job. (Assistant manager because of his young age, he knew more then the older female boss though, he did most of the closing etc. for her because she was slow and made a ton of mistakes)
He is good at managing but speaks little HUngarian these days, forgot most of the little he used to know.
He loves HUngary, loves being a Hungarian and tells anyone who cares to listen all about how great Hungary is.
Too bad he probably isn't ready to give up his good paying job for nothing concrete here in HU.
He was offered a casino job here in Budapest many years ago didn't pay enough to support he and his wife though so he passed on it.

Well I like it and in my experience little country places are as "cheap as chips ". However, I have discovered unexpected drawbacks as I have gone along.  For instance, insects and wasps like to chew the place up over the summer, quaint woodburning stoves only last a season or two, old trees can fall down over the electricity line , pumps die and wells can run dry .
And visitors just like to sit in the sun or sit in front of the fire burning all your wood . So upkeep is the true cost.

blonder wrote:

Over extending and need for that bigger house is what makes people house poor.

I look at it this way. Why have a huge house? No one can be in more than one room at a time. So all the other rooms are, at that time, just being wasted. 

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

We have been "toying" with the idea of buying a small home in HU in the countryside just to have a "safe harbor".

The Tiny House Movement has a point, IMHO.