Looking for teaching job in HCMC

"Would like to teach English but I have no degree in this area."

That is a tuff one. A bachelor degree is your best bet, but you could just get your certification to teach English. I have heard that there are jobs to be found without any degree or certification but you will need to travel to the poor districts way out in the country. On the other hand, you might do okay just looking around the neighborhood and teaching out of your home.

Right now all of the public schools are getting ready for their summer break so it really isn't the best time to be looking without a degree. Business in the language centers will be picking-up but they are all going to require you to have a degree.

Sorry to bring you such bad news.

dbrutter wrote:

"Would like to teach English but I have no degree in this area."

That is a tuff one. A bachelor degree is your best bet, but you could just get your certification to teach English. I have heard that there are jobs to be found without any degree or certification but you will need to travel to the poor districts way out in the country. On the other hand, you might do okay just looking around the neighborhood and teaching out of your home.

Right now all of the public schools are getting ready for their summer break so it really isn't the best time to be looking without a degree. Business in the language centers will be picking-up but they are all going to require you to have a degree.

Sorry to bring you such bad news.

Not quite true. Many centers will employ you without a degree, the better centers won't. There are around 300 centers in Saigon, and many cater for the low income Vietnamese. My advice, find centers that are near you and go and apply, do a Celta or Tesol certificate, get some classroom experience.

Joshua woodward wrote:

Hello everyone I am Josh I'm from Liverpool England I've been in Vietnam for one month,  I really like it here and Would like to teach English but I have no degree in this area, would be very  grateful if anyone could give me any advice or tips thanks you

People are responding on the basis that you have no degree.   Although many people do teach in Vietnam without Bachelor's degrees and work permits, there has been considerable discussion here on whether it is ethical to encourage people to do so.  Unfortunately, moderators eliminated a lot of it.

However one thing I noted was your use of the words "in this area."  Could you clarify.  Did you mean, as most are assuming, that you have no Bachelor's degree at all, or that you have a degree in something other than teaching English?

THIGV wrote:

Although many people do teach in Vietnam without Bachelor's degrees and work permits, there has been considerable discussion here on whether it is ethical to encourage people to do so.  Unfortunately, moderators eliminated a lot of it.

To clarify:

Asking about the legality of working in any given situation is fine, but asking how to work illegally is not.
Saying how the law is commonly broken is just a fact we all know to be true and no one seriously disputes.
The forum gets a lot of complaints from various government agencies about members discussing ways around local laws so any advice suggesting how to break them has to go.
I know of one site that came very close to being closed down after they advertised illegal activity and it's always possible the same could happen here.

Please understand that I am rather firmly in the camp that acknowledges that although a degree may not be needed in practice, it is needed by law, with the rare exception of those with 5 years of documented experience.

In this thread, I simply noted the ambiguity of he OP's statement.  Perhaps it would be entirely possible for him to become in compliance with the law based on his reply, if any, to my query.

If he has the 5 years, even without a degree, it seems to be legal therefore absolutely no issue as far as the forum is concerned.
To be honest depending on what he intends to teach, I don't believe a degree is always needed to be a good teacher.
A person teaching conversational English needs a lot of imagination but hardly needs to know the ins and outs of the finer grammar points.
That said, I still disagree with every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to teach without any solid qualifications just because they happen to be from an English speaking country.
Imagination and a willingness to play with teaching ideas is commonly all you need (Depending on a few factors).

Fred wrote:

THIGV wrote:

Although many people do teach in Vietnam without Bachelor's degrees and work permits, there has been considerable discussion here on whether it is ethical to encourage people to do so.  Unfortunately, moderators eliminated a lot of it.

To clarify:

Asking about the legality of working in any given situation is fine, but asking how to work illegally is not.
Saying how the law is commonly broken is just a fact we all know to be true and no one seriously disputes.
The forum gets a lot of complaints from various government agencies about members discussing ways around local laws so any advice suggesting how to break them has to go.
I know of one site that came very close to being closed down after they advertised illegal activity and it's always possible the same could happen here.

I sat here laughing about the government agencies complaining, they should actually lead by example instead of complaining.

The only thing I would add is that when a poster asks about working there should be at least one reply detailing what is legally required to work here.

Some people may come here to find out about that and be disappointed.

You need a bachelor's degree in any subject and a TEFL certificate which can be online or Trinity TESOL or Cambridge CELTA. I believe 120 hours is the best choice for a TEFL but this should be fact-checked.

Five years previous work experience here in Vietnam can replace the bachelors.

This is not enough to get a work permit however. The most important of these requirements, IMHO, being the criminal background check and health certificate.
The background check can come from Vietnam after you've been here for six months again this should be fact-checked. The health check is done here at designated hospitals. You may need other documents. You may need documents to be translated to Vietnamese at designated centres. You'll need apostiles or notarizations (for Canadians). Your passport must be good for six months after landing here.

Here in Vietnam work permits tend to be ignored by employers, especially language centres. Hence it's possible that the basic requirements of a degree and TEFL might be too.

You mentioed that 5 years experience is not enough for a WP, or did I read that incorrectly.

Not having heard back for young Mr Josh, I think we are just talking to ourselves. 

Anyway here is my understanding of the facts:

1)  A foreigner needs a work permit (WP) to work legally in Vietnam.  The only exception is employees of international companies on temporary assignment.  Once you have a WP, you can obtain a Temporary Residence Card (TRC.)  Note that the TRC is not a work visa.  The TRC takes the place of a visa.

2) To teach English one generally needs a Bachelor's degree in any subject and some kind of TEFL/TESOL certificate.  I do not know if there is a statutory requirement for the TEFL course but it seems empirically that for the authorities, most any course will suffice. 

3) The law also allows those who have a BEd or equivalent teaching degree from other countries to skip the TEFL course.   My lawyer indicated this fact to me as I have a BEd but still submitted my TEFL certificate anyway because she was cautiously aware of the fact that authorities don't necessarily follow the rules.  If you have a teaching degree specifically in TEFL/TESOL you might be able to get by without the separate TEFL certificate.

4)  You must have a police clearance from your own country.  In the past, if you had been in Vietnam for more than six months, you could substitute a Vietnamese check but my understanding is that this has not been true since around 2015.  If things have changed back, I don't know.  Also the authorities seem to want a home country check even if you have spent the last several years in other countries.  This may seem ridiculous but so be it.  Some people from the US have a slightly easier way to go as they can get State rather than national checks but many states require in-person fingerprinting.  The burden of this requirement really varies according to which is your home country.

5)   You must have a health check from a designated Vietnamese hospital but that is fairly routine.  It is unclear however, what the status of HIV positives is.  I never read or heard of anyone with first hand experience on this issue.  The question has been posed here and other forums but. as far as I can recall, never definitively answered.  Of course you can't have active TB but neither can you have TB and teach anywhere in the West.

6)  The rules state that one may substitute 5 years experience for the Bachelor's degree but it must be documented.  If you have been teaching in other countries, I would expect that documentation would be difficult to get after the fact, so best to get letters as you go (assuming you leave on good terms.)  Again I have never met or read of any teacher who claimed to have actually utilized the 5 year exemption.   My understanding is that the 5 year rule is mostly used for other professions, such as IT, where on-the-job experience may be more common.  One other thing is that you can't cite experience teaching in Vietnam because that would be a de facto confession to having broken the law.  I had to provide a notarized letter indicating how I supported myself for the six moths between my arrival and my WP application.  You certainly can't tell the authorities that you have already been teaching within the country.

Probably my writing more than your reading.

The first time you corrected me on that I had simply forgotten that option. So let me try again. Third time lucky?

Five years experience can replace the degree requirement.

Having read the excellent post above mine I am editing mine so as not to cause any further confusion.

I will instead add something useful that I have real time experience with- a criminal background check from Canada.

It has become much faster and much more expensive. I had one done at the consulate here about four years ago. $75 and the consulate did the fingerprinting and assisted with the form as well as addressing the application. It took six months and required an intervention.

I am in the process of getting one now. The RCMP website informs Canadians that all fingerprint checks are digital now. They list several companies that you can access on line to pay for digitizing your ink prints, submitting this to the RCMP and getting the CRC to you or your employer.

This can cost as much as $500 CAD. This high fee involves certifying with the foreign embassy and notarization on the Canadian side. Without that the fee can be 250 to 300 CAD. The time estimates vary among them. You can of course do a dry run through their on line applications to discover the options and final cost.

The FedEx website will give a quote from your city here in VN to the postal code of the service provider you choose and back again.

You can get your ink prints from the International Organization for Migration. They have a website and will answer e-mail enquiries fairly promptly. They have a phone number. It takes about an hour and 65 USD.  You can download the correct form from the RCMP. You will also need the permission form from whomever is doing the digitization. This form is available from the websites of the service providers as is the RCMP finger print form. It requires a thumb print to be valid. So you changing your mind about service providers costs you money and time.

The IOM is (very) roughly in the vicinity of the Canadian consulate or that big beautiful post office if you prefer.

The IOM is pretty clearly in the business of literally saving people's lives.

The IOM and the CRC companies in Canada both provide other services to expats.

I hope that's useful to somebody one day.

Joshua woodward wrote:

I'm from Liverpool England

Your profile says that you're from Manchester? 

Has going and earningv a BA been suggested?   City College of London has a distance learning program that a friend of mine used to earn her degree.  You're young (I assume) and will regret not doing so kater on down the line, if you don't...

"Has going and earning a BA been suggested?   City College of London has a distance learning program that a friend of mine used to earn her degree.  You're young (I assume) and will regret not doing so later on down the line if you don't..."

I have to agree with Teacher Mark on this one. Your best bet is to buckle down and get that BA.

I'm fairly new here to Vietnam and want to work legally as a teacher. I'm trying to find as much info out as possible so that if/when I do get a job I don't just rely on them to do the needful, especially as it seems many simply don't. This thread has helped a lot, so thank you to all for helping me even if the OP has done a runner

I have a few more questions I'd just like to ask if that would be ok about the process and documentation, I'm getting a bit overwhelmed with it all and could really do with the help:

1. I have an IT degree from UK. The document with me is a copy certified and stamped by the University (slightly different first name from my passport i.e. known as name).

2. I have an original CELTA certificate (slightly different first name from my passport i.e. known as name).

3. My criminal background check is at home in UK with my Dad, I only have a photgraph copy with me as it arrived after my departure (same name as passport).

4. I'm currently on a tourist visa with about 3 weeks remaining.

Ok so given the info above, I have a school who wants to employ me full time on a 6 month contract. They have said I need to leave and return on a 6 month business visa, which is quite expensive and it doesn't seem like they will pay for that. Is it necessary to be on a business visa to then apply and get a work permit or could I just return on another tourist visa?

With regards to my documents, the slightly different name issue might be resolved by a letter from the british consulate, I need to see them next week. Do I also need to get them to verify the documents are legitimate before any WP application?

I know I need to get my police clearance sent out here, that's a given, but just want to get a grip of everything else before asking family to do this for me.

As has been mentioned on many forums before, lots of people knowingly or unknowingly don't work above board. I'm really trying not to be one of those people, but the requirements are muddy as hell and I really need to know what I need to do before making a decision about whether to stay here or go elsewhere. All help and advice as always very much appreciated. Thank you!

First of all the advice to get a business visa is pure, A-grade, 1st class BS.

If I were you I'd run far away from whomever gave you that advice. School or no. Don't look back.

Secondly, This slightly different name stuff is likely problematic for countries run by bureaucracies. I have no advice here. Seeing your consulate for advice sounds good,

Third if you have a degree and a CELTA why not put your resume onto an online job site. Serious Teachers. com, or even Dave's ESL  (we live to screw ESL teachers).com. Do a search for ESL jobs, sign up and make your resume public.

There are a lot of jobs in SE Asia and the world at large. Vietnam is third or fourth tier at best when it comes to pay and benefits.

As in the pay is usually hourly and the benefits don't exist. In any event the best benefit is paid housing. VN doesn't do that unless you are an experienced licenced teacher in your own country... maybe.

There are also IT jobs. Renew your visa or simply move on to another country with internet access.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your advice mate...it does help a lot. I'll get my sv up on those sites and hope not too many dodgy offers come through (i've had a few weird ones already!)

Re the business visa thing, it was a school advised me to do that. So am I right in thinking I can apply for a work visa when here on a tourist visa and all being well (documents etc all accepted) I can convert...or will I need to leave and come back at that stage?

Thanks again buddy, hope the weekend's going well

You cannot convert 1 visa type to another. You cannot get a business visa and convert it to another business.

You must always leave and come back with the new visa type.

If you have an offer from a school, have them send you a letter stating that so you you can use it as your sponsor when you apply for biz visa.

You don't apply for a work visa on your own.
A business visa is not a work visa. You can't legally teach with that.

The school has to do paperwork to show that they are hiring you because they cannot find the same expertise here amongst the local population.

You have to supply a health check, criminal background check, a valid passport and proof that you are legally in the country (your tourist visa).

They have to do much more including actually going to the government offices responsible for granting the work permit. AFAIK this is roughly the same for any country. The employer gets the work visa and presents it too you within a month of beginning the process.

The company should pay for everything including reimbursing your costs.

Many companies here get you to do all the leg work at your expense and then put the application in a drawer in case anyone comes by. You never see the work permit.

Monthly wages typical in HCMC likely make the cost of getting a work permit unreasonable here. Not to mention they would lose the ability to fire you you on a whim so they can hire some backpacker or illegal for less money.

VietCanada wrote:

You don't apply for a work visa on your own.
A business visa is not a work visa. You can't legally teach with that.

The school has to do paperwork to show that they are hiring you because they cannot find the same expertise here amongst the local population.

You have to supply a health check, criminal background check, a valid passport and proof that you are legally in the country (your tourist visa).

They have to do much more including actually going to the government offices responsible for granting the work permit. AFAIK this is roughly the same for any country. The employer gets the work visa and presents it too you within a month of beginning the process.

The company should pay for everything including reimbursing your costs.

Many companies here get you to do all the leg work at your expense and then put the application in a drawer in case anyone comes by. You never see the work permit.

Monthly wages typical in HCMC likely make the cost of getting a work permit unreasonable here. Not to mention they would lose the ability to fire you you on a whim so they can hire some backpacker or illegal for less money.

Good advice.

So basically trying to do the right thing, trying to stay above board and get all the right ducks in order is bloody futile in this place. I'm still going to try get everything together, documents and all that and learn more about the process (it isn't cheap as far as I can see)...so I can spot when they just "pop it in the drawer".

I suppose at the end of the day it's up to the individual to know their status, at least thats what they'll say when the door knocks down the road I'm sure. That's certainly how it works in other countries.

Good advice mate, sounds like you've been through all this before, I hope for your sake it's in the rear view mirror

Hi Guys

Thanks for the brilliant reads

I dont have a degree (am working on it though), but Id like to get some clarity on the 5 years teaching experience... does it have to be in the same field or can it be in a different field (like the degrees)?

I have been a full time Auditor and facilitator in health and Saftey industry (2008-2013) and then I was a part-time lecturer for Warehousing and Logistics (2013-2017) at a college back home, plus I have been an Troop scouter with a local scout group for plus minus 10 Year's

Could this be used in your opionions?
Thanks in advance

To the OP- If you want a job based on your work experience then check the job ads for a job looking for your experience and apply. Teaching EFL would not be on your short list. You have no experience at that. Get your degree and you can work in any country that wants you. Without the degree, you're just begging to be taken advantage of.

General advice-Might I suggest that people forget about the 5 year experience loop hole?

There is no magic Hogworts door to teaching EFL in Vietnam.

A bachelors degree in any subject allows you to teach EFL in most Asian countries. Some like China and Korea offer free housing, airfare and other benefits along with a monthly salary for one year and a bonus for completing the year.

Vietnam offers none of that but nonetheless requires the additional qualification of a teaching certificate. This can be an on line TEFL for a couple hundred dollars or thousands for a Cambridge or Trinity college TEFL certificate.

For that you get to apply for an hourly paid job with no benefits or job security whatsoever.
Did I mention work-life balance? Of course not because, Vietnam.

How long does the summer break last in the public schools ? from
when to when?

The school year ends sometime in May for EFL teachers. It begins sometime in late August to the second week of September.

You make most of your money from your pay in October to December. Remember your pay is for the previous month's work- September through November. After that you make your money on your April and May pay.

You work about 8.5 months and get 5 months of full pay if you don't miss any work for personal reasons. No pay for 3.5 to 4 months.

It depends on the school , the company you work for and whether it's primary, middle or secondary school. It may also depend on the local government.

For example I worked at a school that had no classes in December or May but I've also worked at schools in which I had a full schedule for both months but I had to sit around to earn the money when I couldn't teach a class because they were writing an exam.

I've made extra money because of teachers not working around Christmas or packing up and moving on during TET. I've lost money because of schools hiring backpackers instead of using their full time staff to fill in for those missing teachers.

Language centres run all year but their pay also fluctuates during the year. The best pay days are in July and August and then October through January.

VietCanada. Well said on all fronts.

This is why, if you can find a salaried job, don't scoff however humble that salary may be.   It's nice to be able to plan your spending based on a solid regular number from month to month.

Hi Joshua,

Would you like to teach (exactly speak to for practice) via Skype? If yes, pls contact me at xxx

Thanks.
Lam