Visa on arrival - WARNING!

WARNING Foolish tourist!!! Don't blame the immigration person. $50 is $50. If you can't figure out all the numbers just move on and learn your lesson. There is an ATM right there, withdraw the VND an pay the exact amount.

And they wonder why return rates are low. VN officials are grubs at the best of times.

WARNING!!! Smart douche!!!! Don't blame them for refusing a brand new $100 USD dollar bill! They are really innocent! Don't blame them for telling me no  VND can be used either!!! Lesson learnt alright. This bit puzzled me, they could have ripped me off in VND, I had 10 million on me and asked if they'd accept it. But they chose SGD. Perhaps this floats their boat better for whatever reason.

C'mon, seriously mate, dead serious, are you telling me you condone behavior of this sorts? Refusing USD (as stated on the form), their own local currency, but saying yes to the Singapore Dollar before returning me 80 cents? Then snatching my passport out of my hands, holding my passport and refusing to return it to me unless I find some magical way to go through customs without a visa, change money to USD, and magically come back in the opposite direction of immigration to return to the back of the queue? Then laughing at their success when I had to turn around and walk off with 80 cents?

It's alright, you can apologize later Diazo

Peace and love.

That's really unfortunate to hear. Do you happen to work in Vietnam? Either ways, generally speaking, do you know if they harass foreign owned businesses?

If you had VND, why did you offer to pay in USD or anything else for that matter?

I can't comment on your experience.  I can say that in the days before ATM's, I once spent a Sunday without eating because I had forgotten to change USD at the bank Friday. 
I didn't get mad at he locals for not taking USD's, I got mad at myself for being so stupid.

I think the real issue is expectations.  I've been around enough to have little if any.

Im trying to see where he said he had VND.

colinoscapee wrote:

Im trying to see where he said he had VND.

This bit puzzled me, they could have ripped me off in VND, I had 10 million on me and asked if they'd accept it. But they chose SGD

Most of the time, dealing with the Vietnam government departments to get various type of jobs done will required some "additional unofficial processing fee" either directly or indirectly via agents. Those some can be avoided by having ALL documents in "required" format with perfect reproduction and the correct official fees in correct currencies. [Experience from dealings with various government departments in 5 foreign owned companies in Vietnam worked so far over the past 12 years+].

This is the homeland of those Vietnam government officials, you got no way to beat them on their playing ground especially come to the so call rules and regulations.

I think you are the exception, not the norm.  I have alot of visas at that window and I mean alot.  I always knew the amount required prior to arriving and made sure I either had the correct USD or VND and yes, they take both, even in combination as I did one time just to see if the lady at the window would take it, she did and smiled, no problem.

If it was your first time, I can understand the frustration waiting so long, but I find it very hard to believe she would not take VND.  Second, as others stated, there is an atm right there, no need to go to the exchange.  I have been there so many times that 1 time it took longer than normal and I started to worry, but guess what, an officer came out from behind the closed doors and escorted me right to baggage claim, no wait for immigration.  He already stamped my passport and apologized for the wait.   

The best thing to do is be prepared for the visa on arrival.  Have your approval letter, have your passport fotos, passport and the correct fee.  I guarantee you will never be hassled.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, but something tells me you are not so innocent yourself.  I would love to hear her side of the story because my educated guess is that you did something that pissed her and her coworkers off. 

Zepo wrote:

colinoscapee wrote:

Im trying to see where he said he had VND.

This bit puzzled me, they could have ripped me off in VND, I had 10 million on me and asked if they'd accept it. But they chose SGD

I see it now, it was in one of his replies. I was looking for it in his original post.

Oh trust me I too would loveeeeeeee so much to hear her side of the story! What I'd give to understand.

Looks like it's just a case of get used to it eh?


Thanks for the replies all! Good day!

Thanks for your reply mate! I will bear that in mind always.

A lesson for first time visitors: Avoid visa on arrival. It is not any more convenient than getting a visa at the Vietnamese Embassy or Consulate in the country you are in. You will save money. After a long airplane trip, you just want to get through immigration and customs, not wait in yet another queue and hassle with currency, photos, bureaucrats.

Countries with Vietnam Embassies

gobot wrote:

A lesson for first time visitors: Avoid visa on arrival. It is not any more convenient than getting a visa at the Vietnamese Embassy or Consulate in the country you are in. You will save money. After a long airplane trip, you just want to get through immigration and customs, not wait in yet another queue and hassle with currency, photos, bureaucrats.

Countries with Vietnam Embassies

Listen to this gentleman. He knows the deal ☺
Good day and peace and safety to everyone.

First time, I agree.  After that, no.  It is a hassle to get to and wait at the embassy and it was a lot more expensive.

I am not sure about the visa fees now, but I started my trips 3 years ago, the embassy was more expensive.  Getting an approval letter took all of about 5 minutes to apply for online and you get it 2 days later via email.  Sure, waiting at the airport can be a drag, but I always got multiple entry visas to minimize the waiting.  Now with the annual visa, I would prefer to wait at the airport for 30 minutes once every 12 months, minimum, rather than drive to the embassy and lose half a day, if not more.

Diazo ain't apologizing for that one bud....later will be a lot later. You should try to get up to speed on foreign travel before you hit the road. What all have told you here is sage advice. If you can not see where the problem was, then you are doomed to make the same mistakes again.
Hope life goes better for you though here. It is a great place that is full of these types of challenges on a daily basis.

Too easy for next time , yo know how much for the visa fee ,then you paid Viet nam Dong , why did you offer to pay in USD , an one more event at Emabasy they also have misunderstanding like this and get your money

Actually, if you go online, the procedure for getting your year long visa in the mail are quite clear.
Just saying.
Vietnam is trying to straddle two worlds. If I need an actual visa, like coming to Vietnam, I'm not spending $$ on plane ticket, then 14 hour flight to put myself at the mercy of some tired bureaucrat at the airport.

The simple fact is that a letter is not a visa. they make that clear. Therefore, for me, I would get the visa in advance.
When I arrived at Tan Son Nhat, I was thru passport control and immigration in less than 10 minutes, my checked bag was already waiting for me.
I was in the taxi with my GF within 15 minutes.

That is a record for me.

So it's hard to complain about anything.  My only point is expectations.
The higher they are, the more you will be disappointed.

Because when I asked if VND was alright she said no, USD. Well not said, yelled.



Peace

hehe i was teasing, of course i wasn't expecting an apology from a sage, man! thank you for your sage advice. i am really enlightened now. i now see where the problem is and fully accept my mistake of.. uh..mm.. forgetting the KY jelly?

thanks for the well wishes Diazo. take it easy buddy and look forward to the next lecture

peace and love to all. have a pleasant week ahead Diazo and all.

Wxx3 wrote:

Actually, if you go online, the procedure for getting your year long visa in the mail are quite clear.
Just saying.
Vietnam is trying to straddle two worlds. If I need an actual visa, like coming to Vietnam, I'm not spending $$ on plane ticket, then 14 hour flight to put myself at the mercy of some tired bureaucrat at the airport.

The simple fact is that a letter is not a visa. they make that clear. Therefore, for me, I would get the visa in advance.
When I arrived at Tan Son Nhat, I was thru passport control and immigration in less than 10 minutes, my checked bag was already waiting for me.
I was in the taxi with my GF within 15 minutes.

That is a record for me.

So it's hard to complain about anything.  My only point is expectations.
The higher they are, the more you will be disappointed.

actually, i did go online and read the procedure and you are right, it was clear. just saying. i followed the procedure and still got bummed so..
that really is a record, 10 mins! my record of 1 and a half hour ++ with an 'offer' to rejoin the line was a personal record too.

i'm sorry there sir/madam, but i'm going to have to disagree with you there, it is actually really easy to complain about anything if you follow the rules, bring alternative currency justtttt in case (looks like it backfired), but still get your passport snatched out of your hand, money thrown at you, and an invitation to go to the back of the queue. and then gleeful laughter when i told them to keep the money.

i fully agree with you about the expectations bit though. i expected shit, but now i know to expect to be shat on and to have a smile on my face lol.

cheers, i sincerely hope you always only have to wait ten minutes!

Diazo was not intending to lecture. But I can understand how it came across that way. Yes,if you do not guard you money you will need a boat load of KY jelly. They see round eyes they see ATM. So it is best to know the hand you are dealing with from the start, theirs and yours. For the most part when they see you they see a need for you to bend over and grease. You should understand that, and be ready for your next move.
  I recently replied to an attorneys advertisement on their web page here. It said free initial consultation. I called and maid an appointment for a divorce. They gave me an appointment and sent me a text with their address. In the text they wanted to inform me that the initial consultation is $50. They spoke to me on the phone and heard "Round Eyes" and were ready to cash in. This country is full of these ***.

OK
I think the part you are missing is following the "rules".
What rules? Whose rules? When do those rules apply? When don't they?

The problem you have is you can not answer one of those questions.  That's where your expectations came around an bit you in the ass.

So you can spend the rest of your life defending your actions here and feeling bad that everyone shit on you, but the fact that you posted a question (I thought it was a question) means you do care about the answer.
But even more importantly, I really want you to have a positive experience here in Vietnam.
I find the Vietnamese extremely cooperative and when someone has a bad experience, I'd like to help them not have it happen again.

I've only been here a week shy of three months.

But in the past 12 months, I have had 60+ border entries and exits, in 20 different countries.

What do they ALL have in common, EVERYONE thinks that how they do things is EXACTLY like everyone else does it, but in fact, NOT ONE PLACE were the forms, procedures exactly the same.

40 miles down the road, the next port of entry, they would give me a form which I needed to show at the next port. Never needed it again, but the new port would give me a form that I needed...

My long winded point is from what I have seen in Vietnam,  it's a massive bureaucracy.  And like all big bureaucracies, there are so many rules, the person doing the interpretation becomes critical.

It's not a put down, Europe and much of the US works the same way, whether you realize it or not.
It's just what it is.

And for what's it's worth, it is a country of laws, maybe a lot of them, but very different than its neighbor to the north.

Have fun in Vietnam and don't take it personally.

Over and Out.

Thought about this some more, my educated guess is that the lady at the window felt disrespected by your attitude.  What do I mean?  Respect, especially in public, it is very important in VN, even if you feel cheated.  Others expect you to at least behave and be respectful and not act like a Western loud mouth.  Believe me, being a loud mouth does not require much, just an attitude.

For example, one day the wife and I were leaving her work from the parking garage and I lost the ticket for the second time.  I could see in her face she was disappointed and could not understand how I could lose 2 tickets in 1 week.  So I try to explain to her that I was at a lost and not sure how this could happen and it is possible someone stole it because the week before, security took our motobike 2 times for allegedly parking in the wrong spot.  I thought nothing was wrong with my attitude as I was only explaining my side of the story.

Guess what?  When we got home, I got the rest of the story.  She was not happy with my attitude and explained how could I show disrespect in public like that.  I was like what?  I was lost and confused.  Simply explaining  the situation, how could that be disrespectful?  The problem, the attitude.  She said I yelled and was making all kinds of gestures.  Believe me, I was not yelling, not even close.  I was simply trying to explain what happened, but to her, it came across as yelling because I was being a little animated in my explanation because i was trying to make her understand.  But no, not acceptable.  Based on western standards, I was not yelling at all, just explaining what happened but in her eyes, it was yelling. 

So, I am guessing that your attitude, which you feel is warranted based on what happened, is what got the lady to respond the way she did.  I am not saying you are wrong, but hope you realize that here in VN, you should show respect to others, even if they are wrong. 

Believe me, you will get a lot more accomplished by doing this and I know it may be hard to understand or do, but if you can do it, your time in VN will be more pleasurable.

You just pointed out one very big flaw with VN, getting them to accept when they are wrong. Read the news here and watch the buck passing, even better,watch the locals gang up on you just because you are not VN.

People make so many excuses for the locals behaviour, yet back in their home countries they would crucify anybody who did what the locals do here. I see it for what it is and wont sugar coat things like some expats do on this forum.

I stupidly left my Tablet at the Visa Stamping counter...as I was waiting in line to pass thru the gate with my new visa...I wanted to check something on the Tablet (about 10 minutes later).

So...I give up my place in line to go ask the man about my tablet...Kinda making a square with my hands and pretending to touch-type.

He pulled it out of a drawer, asked me to enter the unlock code and gave it back to me.

So, the immigration people, they are not all bad

It was not visible at the counter, so he could have just kept it.

Zepo wrote:

So, the immigration people, they are not all bad

It was not visible at the counter, so he could have just kept it.

Happy to hear it, Zepo.

I left my wallet (full with cash) at an airline check in counter in Rome (Italy) while turning my back to put the boarding pass in my suitcase sitting on the floor. When I straightened up and turned around a few minutes later, wallet was gone. No one acknowledged seeing it.

Thieving is not restricted to lesser developed countries or ill-mannered and corrupted bureaucrats.

I dont recall anyone saying they are all bad, but they do have a very bad reputation. Maybe some social skill classes would help, starting with the ignorant officials at Moc Bai border.

On the last point, Italy versus Vietnam, Ha, story did not surprise me.
But it's only in the tourist areas. But that applies to virtually every country I've been to in Europe (and I've been to almost all).

Zepo wrote:

I stupidly left my Tablet at the Visa Stamping counter...as I was waiting in line to pass thru the gate with my new visa...I wanted to check something on the Tablet (about 10 minutes later).

So...I give up my place in line to go ask the man about my tablet...Kinda making a square with my hands and pretending to touch-type.

He pulled it out of a drawer, asked me to enter the unlock code and gave it back to me.

So, the immigration people, they are not all bad

It was not visible at the counter, so he could have just kept it.

that is absolutely fantastic to hear! it's always heart warming when people are honest,

Villanova, I will give you another.  I make so many frequent trips, that lady you say was so rude to you, recognizes me now.  However the 1 time I did not have enough dollars and asked her if I could pay the difference in VND (which i saw in the cash drawer so I expected a yes) and she agreed, I owed her $10 USD so I gave her 100,000 VND thinking it was about $10 USD, it was late and I just wanted to get to my wife.  She kept insisting it was not enough and I got a little frustrated and confused, but did not over react so I put my hand up to let her know I wanted a few seconds to think about.  Sure enough, I realized I made a mistake and I profusely apologized, bowed etc. to show her I admit my mistake and was so sorry.  She looked at me with a genuine grin and smiled, saying basically, thank you and I appreciate you admitting your mistake and sincere apology.   To be honest, I cannot think of a time she has not smiled when I picked up my visa.

I can give many more, but I have to give credit to the wife for many.   So, if you want to reduce your chances of being taken advantage of by locals, get a VN GF or wife (hehe, I mean a good girl).

colinoscapee wrote:

...People make so many excuses for the locals behaviour, yet back in their home countries they would crucify anybody who did what the locals do here. I see it for what it is and wont sugar coat things like some expats do on this forum.

My dream would be to airlift a Vietnamese and his motorbike to a California suburb, and just follow him driving around as he does here.  Oh, the horns, the expletives, road rage and righteous indignation would so be so much fun to watch. And he wouldn't even notice!

Sorry, it's like Godwin's law, if a thread on expat.com gets long enough,
somebody eventually brings up Vietnamese drivers... 

gobot wrote:

My dream would be to airlift a Vietnamese and his motorbike to a California suburb, and just follow him driving around as he does here.  Oh, the horns, the expletives, road rage and righteous indignation would so be so much fun to watch. And he wouldn't even notice!

I don't know whether you've been to Little Saigon in OC recently. Almost everyone of the 190,000 residents of that area drove exactly as he did in the real Saigon. The only difference was that the drivers were in their cars instead of motorbikes, but in a way, it's worst with cars.

Every time we had a reason to go there, we're involved in a near miss.

Road rage has rarely ever happened there, however, since everyone's behaviour was the same as everyone else's. My spouse was probably the only person whose blood pressure hit sky high whenever he drove through the area.

This this has morphed into driving, I will say this.

Once you understand that motorbikes are driven exactly as bicycles, all becomes very clear.  Which makes sense considering the evolution of two wheeled transport here.

I for one am grateful that there are 10+ million motorbikes and not cars, as in Beijing.

I grew up riding a bicycle in New York City, so riding against traffic, on the sidewalk, angled turns against traffic, isn't that why we ride bikes int he first place?

vndreamer wrote:

Thought about this some more, my educated guess is that the lady at the window felt disrespected by your attitude.  What do I mean?  Respect, especially in public, it is very important in VN, even if you feel cheated.  Others expect you to at least behave and be respectful and not act like a Western loud mouth.  Believe me, being a loud mouth does not require much, just an attitude.

For example, one day the wife and I were leaving her work from the parking garage and I lost the ticket for the second time.  I could see in her face she was disappointed and could not understand how I could lose 2 tickets in 1 week.  So I try to explain to her that I was at a lost and not sure how this could happen and it is possible someone stole it because the week before, security took our motobike 2 times for allegedly parking in the wrong spot.  I thought nothing was wrong with my attitude as I was only explaining my side of the story.

Guess what?  When we got home, I got the rest of the story.  She was not happy with my attitude and explained how could I show disrespect in public like that.  I was like what?  I was lost and confused.  Simply explaining  the situation, how could that be disrespectful?  The problem, the attitude.  She said I yelled and was making all kinds of gestures.  Believe me, I was not yelling, not even close.  I was simply trying to explain what happened, but to her, it came across as yelling because I was being a little animated in my explanation because i was trying to make her understand.  But no, not acceptable.  Based on western standards, I was not yelling at all, just explaining what happened but in her eyes, it was yelling. 

So, I am guessing that your attitude, which you feel is warranted based on what happened, is what got the lady to respond the way she did.  I am not saying you are wrong, but hope you realize that here in VN, you should show respect to others, even if they are wrong. 

Believe me, you will get a lot more accomplished by doing this and I know it may be hard to understand or do, but if you can do it, your time in VN will be more pleasurable.

hi vndreamer,

i was respectful in every sense. always am, especially to immigration because we all know how miserable they can make life for us! i smiled, was polite, and said something along the lines of 'i'm so sorry i'm really bad at math, but..' that's when what happened, happened. even after the episode was not belligerent in any way, i thanked her for the Visa and that's about it.

thanks for the advice, i don't like to have to say this about myself, but i am really mild mannered, soft spoken, respectful, and polite. also, i never show attitude to anyone whether in my own country, at work, at home, overseas, everywhere really - cause i'm a pacifist.

not quite sure why everyone is assuming i was a rude punk.

Because thats the easy road to take when they werent actually there to witness it. I have seen officials carry on like turds, if someone wants to bow to them and accept their rudeness, its up to them.

My friends were abused and sworn at for overstaying the wifes visa. Even though she showed them a letter stating the renewal of her visa was stuffed up by immigration. She was gobsmacked at the swearing and bullying directed at her and her husband. Not all officials are crap, but there is an attitude that runs deep through the system here in VN.

Wxx3 wrote:

OK
I think the part you are missing is following the "rules".
What rules? Whose rules? When do those rules apply? When don't they?

The problem you have is you can not answer one of those questions.  That's where your expectations came around an bit you in the ass.

So you can spend the rest of your life defending your actions here and feeling bad that everyone shit on you, but the fact that you posted a question (I thought it was a question) means you do care about the answer.
But even more importantly, I really want you to have a positive experience here in Vietnam.
I find the Vietnamese extremely cooperative and when someone has a bad experience, I'd like to help them not have it happen again.

I've only been here a week shy of three months.

But in the past 12 months, I have had 60+ border entries and exits, in 20 different countries.

What do they ALL have in common, EVERYONE thinks that how they do things is EXACTLY like everyone else does it, but in fact, NOT ONE PLACE were the forms, procedures exactly the same.

40 miles down the road, the next port of entry, they would give me a form which I needed to show at the next port. Never needed it again, but the new port would give me a form that I needed...

My long winded point is from what I have seen in Vietnam,  it's a massive bureaucracy.  And like all big bureaucracies, there are so many rules, the person doing the interpretation becomes critical.

It's not a put down, Europe and much of the US works the same way, whether you realize it or not.
It's just what it is.

And for what's it's worth, it is a country of laws, maybe a lot of them, but very different than its neighbor to the north.

Have fun in Vietnam and don't take it personally.

Over and Out.

there is no question here as there is nothing to be asked.

as the title of the post implies, this is a warning so that others would not have to go through what i did. apologies if i mislead you. which part did you misconstrue as a question?

i am not defending my actions. i did nothing, so i literally have nothing to defend.

you mentioned that when someone has a bad experience, you'd like to help them not have it again. so do i, hence the warning.

that's nice that you have positive experiences, i'm glad.

impressive how well traveled you are. i have never met anyone like you have described, who thinks that procedures are the same everywhere internationally etc. you must have socialized a lot in your border crossings.

Yes, I agree that Vietnam is very bureaucratic.

I haven't traveled Europe and US very much so i can't comment on that, but from my couple of visits i had positive experiences.

Villanova, from my perspective, your post came across that you were really upset and being a western guy, I know how that feels.  Thus, it is the perception that possibly you were rude because you felt cheated.  However, as you said, maybe you were trying to be polite and not rude, but what constituents being rude in VN vs. the West is very different as in night and day and right vs. left. 

To this day, my comment about the parking lot with the wife, I am still at a lost how I was the bad guy, just by merely explaining what happened.  My educated guess is that because I felt I was not in the wrong, my explaining was not like everyday conversation, but a little excited because I wanted to prove I did nothing wrong.  The VN, especially women, are so astute when it comes to personality traits and picking up your attitude.  So, like me, I thought I was being normal and just explaining, but my slight excitement trying too explain came across as rude/disrespectful.  I still do not agree, but I understand it now. 

So word to the wise, if you have a VN wife or GF, learn these words:

"Da Vo Yeu or Em Yeu, you right"   

by saying these words, you avoid 

Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I'm not referring to travelers,  but those bureaucrats behind the desk. They think they are following the rules,  that everyone at every desk does it exactly the same.
No one does.  But to even mention that is a minefield.

In just trying to give those interested some much needed perspective.