England to Hungary?

Hi
Yes Hungary is a pleasant place ,but it depends on what your looking for. I have lived and worked in Hungary for the past 20 years. I live outside of Budapest ,but only 60km. I have my own house and plenty of land which keeps me busy in the summer time. Weather here is great in the summer at 30oc ,but cold winters at -10 to more depending on the yearly variations.
  Life here is what you make of it ,or what your looking for . you can have a quiet country life or you can have a busy town life.  It all depends on you.
As for working , again it depends on what your looking for and your qualification. Your ability to communicate in Hungarian.
If your looking for a retirement place. Hungary for me will be the place , but I have adjusted to Hungarian life. People here as with the world as a hole , there is good people and not so good people , you will find your way.
  Accommodation : Buying or renting , in the towns or villages , depended on your financial situation, depends on if your wanting to work, how far you want to travel by car or by bus- train.
I hope the above helps and if you need any other info, just drop me a word or 2.
Good luck
Mark

Thanks for the reply Mark

The main thing is how I would get on there. I am happy to get a tutor and learn Hungarian, in my opinion it would be rude not to do so!

Weather does not bother me really. I would be happy to take-on a sysadmin role or such initially. I'm thinking about Budapest as a target area, though would be happy to look at alternatives, though I know only speaking English at this time, that would probably be the best bet(?).

Ultimately, I'd love to grow grapes/make wine or grow crops or similar (non 'rat-race').

I have about 13M forints to proceed on this idea. I am in my thirties.

disenfranchised wrote:

Hi,

Hoping for some advice; I am looking into the feasibility of relocating to Hungary. The UK has completely changed from the place in-which I grew-up, though I have lived here my whole life. It seems like the meaning of everything people say is a guise to do the exact opposite.

It seems to me that Mr. Orban and Hungary is the place that most represents the values I believe in; namely, a Christian country that does not put the beliefs and practices of others before their own. A country that puts its people first, where being a hard-worker does not simply mean being a tool for others to exploit. A place of community for those that like the values of the country, rather than wishing to change the country.

I am a single male, reasonably senior IT professional and have some savings to facilitate such a move. I work hard and am an honest person. I don't want hassle or to impose myself where I am not wanted. I just want to be able to live my life without being lied to or exploited constantly. I want to live somewhere where I can contribute professionally and personally and everyone pulls together instead of tearing each other down.

Is anyone able to offer advice as to how such a move may work out for me?


Thanks,
'disenfranchised'.

Interesting post.

If you expect any kind of nirvana - political, religious or otherwise - you won't find it here.

If you haven't read the news recently, you won't of heard of the protests over the new labour laws.   It's significant enough that Orban may not survive it. In which case Hungary will become rather different. 

The same nonsense that exists in the UK exists here even  if it's goulash flavoured.  Not knowing the language is isolating and one may think everything is OK because of not being involved. But it isn't.  Hungarians are pissed off with all those issues exactly the same as British people.   It's just the same nonsense everywhere.

You need to do a lot more research on this place.  I've been involved here for 24 years and I still don't understand it.

Thanks Fluffy,

Not expecting nirvana, perhaps less anti-nirvana (if that makes sense?).

Not seem anything in the news about labour laws, will do some searching...

What I've seen in the news is somewhat different to the UK aspect. For example, here the Financial Times proclaimed George Soros 'man of the year'. My understanding is that he is not too popular over there. Theresa May et al are trying to stop Brexit in-effect. So much money and effort has been spent trying to force people to change their minds.

Is it a case of all talk, no action? Are things really not too dissimilar to the UK?

Thanks for the reply Mark

The main thing is how I would get on there. I am happy to get a tutor and learn Hungarian, in my opinion it would be rude not to do so!
***** If your serious about the idea, learning the language would be quite easy as your hearing and learning everyday.

Weather does not bother me really. I would be happy to take-on a sysadmin role or such initially. I'm thinking about Budapest as a target area, though would be happy to look at alternatives, though I know only speaking English at this time, that would probably be the best bet(?).
******The first step is to find employment, at your young age the 13M will soon run out. Yes Budapest is full of city life and city prices, accommodation out of the cities -rent - flat or house cost are a lot less, but also isolation is a point , especially in the early days until you get familiar with everything and everyone.

Ultimately, I'd love to grow grapes/make wine or grow crops or similar (non 'rat-race').
*** Sounds nice , my garden is full of fruit trees and fruitful :-)))) but its also nice in the long hot summer time to get out and relax in my own space. There is lots to do here in Hungary ,lots of green areas , walking , cycling what ever your life style is you can find it here.

I have about 13M forints to proceed on this idea. I am in my thirties.
**** I also came here in my thirties.
So first think about what you could do here , number one is securing your future and that starts with job hunting.

Good luck with your adventure.
Mark

disenfranchised wrote:

Thanks Fluffy,

Not expecting nirvana, perhaps less anti-nirvana (if that makes sense?).

Not seem anything in the news about labour laws, will do some searching...

What I've seen in the news is somewhat different to the UK aspect. For example, here the Financial Times proclaimed George Soros 'man of the year'. My understanding is that he is not too popular over there. Theresa May et al are trying to stop Brexit in-effect. So much money and effort has been spent trying to force people to change their minds.

Is it a case of all talk, no action? Are things really not too dissimilar to the UK?

Well, one person's nirvana is another person's hell.

You can find lots of info on the web.  Politically here, it's dire.

Plenty of people no longer believe that very boring and unsubstantiated rhetoric that Soros is the root of all evil but you have to understand the motivation of Orban.    OV (Orban Victor)'s standard MO is to find an enemy to promote his political cause. At the moment, it's Soros but next year it could be the EU or it could be NATO or even the Jews (btw, Soros is Jewish).  Or whatever.   It's not like people haven't seen all this stuff before. People here are equally critical of OV as they would be of say, Teresa May or Corbyn.

There are some serious concerns here about OV's government and OV's friends and OV's vanity projects (ridiculous football stadiums and railways - Google it). More than enough allegations of corruption, nepotism and cronyism.  These are far more seriously in your face than the kind of stuff that turns up in the UK.  Read the Sargentini Report from the EU politician of the same name or the controversy of the CEU (Central European University). 

Then you'll see another side to Hungary.   It's not all negative - great wine, good food, nice weather in the summer and out in the sticks a quieter way of life (and poverty too).  Urban dwellers think very differently to the rural population.

disenfranchised wrote:

where being a hard-worker does not simply mean being a tool for others to exploit.

Multinational corporations exploit the Hungarian work force all the time, with the assistance of the government. The new labor law, for example, that fluffy2560 mentioned now allows companies to have workers do up to 400 hours of overtime a year, and not have to pay for that work time for up to three years.

Would you like to work and not get paid for three years? And there is often a lot of overtime needed in IT. Especially since the country is lacking IT professionals (who left because they can earn more abroad with better working conditions).

I could say the same about other ideals you have about Hungary, but won't bother at this time -- just to say there are similar "issues" there as well.

I agree with Mark, any place will be what you make of it. You may be very happy here. But I think you are also being, in your post, a bit naive about Hungary.

klsallee wrote:

....And there is often a lot of overtime needed in IT. Especially since the country is lacking IT professionals (who left because they can earn more abroad with better working conditions).
..... a bit naive about Hungary.

Yes I forgot to mention about people leaving for better conditions elsewhere. Makes no sense to work here when you can get 4-6 x the money somewhere else.

The labour law is partially symptomatic of that. Unemployment is down to 4% which is the lowest it could be.  Unlike other countries, Hungary has no plans for importing immigrant labour. 

I think when I got here the population was about 10.4 million or so and now it's about 9.7M. I have a feeling they are predicting 8 million within 20 years as people leave.  An even worse case is Bulgaria - case of last person please turn out the lights.

For working in IT, there's not a great deal of choice for large corporates if that's what the OP wants - Vodafone, MOL etc.  Anything customer facing has to be in Hungarian. All in Budapest of course.   Small country, small economy and less choice, big country, bigger economy and more choice.

disenfranchised wrote:

Ultimately, I'd love to grow grapes/make wine or grow crops or similar (non 'rat-race')..

I do agriculture in Hungary. It is also quite a rat-race. Full of regulations and a huge host of other issues, some of which you can not control, such as weather, et al.  Your entire crop can be lost due to this that or the other thing. And agriculture also has become quite political here. A lot of ag land and grants have been by design given out to mostly "government supporters". Those traits you admire, such as taking care of their own here, also means a more Zimbabwe concept of agriculture. And so that includes trying to keep "foreigners" such as expats, from owning ag land. My wife is Hungarian. So she owns all the land. Not me (I am a foreigner). One way around it.

And even when all goes right, it is still a lot of work. You may say, you don't mind a lot of work. But..... I have heard that before. Few can do a week of what I do. If farming was easy, everyone would be doing it.

anyway leaving politics aside, to re locate to any country takes a lot of forethought and planing , the main issues - points - questions :
Why do I want to relocate ?
Can I find work ?
Can I ensure my future - my life ?
Can I adjust my life style ?
Can I support myself ?

I am sure there is a lot more points to consider ,so do your thinking before your packing.

Good luck
Mark

Why not spend a month or so here before doing anything drastic?
6 months would be ideal but that isn't so easy to do if you're still working.
My husband is Hungarian but spent over 40 years living in the US.
He has mixed feeling about Hungary, thinks the people over all are small minded and petty about just about everything.
People seem to love to place others into roles depending on their income, age sex etc.
You will also have to realize no matter if you learn to speak Hungarian you will always never be a Hungarian in the locals minds or hearts.
I've been married nearly 44 years to a Hungarian and still even his family sees me as a foreigner.
My MIL used to always ask him why he married a "outsider".
Since you are still young in your 30's there is a good chance you will meet a spouse/ partner in Hungary.
Even "mixed" relationships in Hungary have to be examined before you allow yourself to put much faith in them. It's common for people to say what they think you want to hear because they want something out of you.
Many times people will see you as a way out of the country by marrying you etc.
Not always but it really does happen, happened even to our own son. We all saw the warning signs but he wouldn't open his eyes up in time.
One thing for sure most locals are very wary of western ex-pats.
They often can be rude and or heartless trying to take advantage of their good nature.
Life has been and still is hard for many in Hungary and they are not overly sensitive about taking advantage any way they can to get ahead in life.
Many people in relationships in Hungary met in school , through family or at work.
Getting towards middle life and being single means you may meet those who for one reason or the other couldn't be in a relationship with their fellow countrymen ( women). Divorce is wide spread in HU so there are allot of single mom's, people with issues and baggage just out looking for security.
Just a word to the wise.
I believe you will have no problems finding a job or place to live in Hungary no matter if you chose to live in a city or a rural area.
Just don't move over blindly thinking it will be easy.
The rules are often different if you're not a local. There really is a double standard with just about everything in Hungary if you're not Hungarian.
Sounds negative , it's not just keep your eyes open .
13 million Forints is good money but not enough really to buy a property in the city.
Prices are relative to wages, from the west it looks cheap in Hungary but working in Hungary is not going to make anyone rich.
You might even wish to look into SE Asia, maybe you could set up your own at home IT company .
Your single, young and have a bit of money so you have many options as to where to live.
Sorry, just rambling on here.

Rambling on , but so much truth in what you have said. 

Marilyn Tassy wrote:

Why not spend a month or so here before doing anything drastic?
......

Excellent post Marilyn.  Pretty much sums it up and more.

I worked with someone who use to be a shop manager. He moved to Austria he took a job as a pot wash in a restaurant. He was earning twice as much than what he was working in Hungary.

SimCityAT wrote:

I worked with someone who use to be a shop manager. He moved to Austria he took a job as a pot wash in a restaurant. He was earning twice as much than what he was working in Hungary.

Sure.  In the 1990s I lost count of the number of moonlighting physicists, chemists, lawyers and engineers I'd taken taxi rides with.   I think anyone who is anyone has left the country.  Three of Mrs Fluffy's cousins have left - one to the USA, one to Switzerland and the other to Germany. 

Even my BIL who is mid-40s  is thinking of leaving. He's in IT in the state sector with a Masters degree and he could easily get a job somewhere far better paid than here.  In fact he could probably increase his salary  4-5 x.  He says he's staying because he likes it  and he likes his friends but even his tolerance over salaries and working conditions is getting paper thin. Other people are doing better.

Same sort of thing in Las Vegas.
Can't tell you how many former doctors,nurses, engineers etc. worked as either cab drivers or game dealers.
One of my floormen at a casino was from Iran, he owned a furniture store in Las Vegas but gave it up to work in a casino, he also had a engineering degree from Iran.
Many dealers from SE Asia were doctors or professionals in the old countries but didn't want to go through the troubles of getting their papers in order for the US.
Then again there were a few lay  about types like myself that found dealing to pay better and be physically and sometimes mentally easier then working in a beauty salon.
Not much fun being stuck working on a person for an hour or longer who was unfriendly or just odd.
Dealing, no problem , couldn't hear them and just changing the shuffle a tiny bit usually got rid of them in no time. ( I have a mean streak sometimes...)
Our nephew moved to Austria as a cook because in Hungary he just wasn't making the money he needed.
My husband's half sister teaches chemistry at a Budapest uni and cleans homes on her day off for extra money.
Then again, life isn't all about money, many people chose to stay in Hungary for family and country,
If one can work online at home it wouldn't really matter where they lived, they would do them same anywhere.
Life shouldn't be about regret either so giving a new place a try is also an adventure,no big deal if it doesn't work out the way you thought it would. You can always return home if you don't burn all the bridges on the way out.
My son is planning on quitting his job next year and moving to japan with his Japanese wife.
God help them both, since in my mind they are still very silly about life but then again, I pray they prove my fears wrong.
Would rather see them go then live with regrets about not trying.
My HU husband took off to S, Africa in 1975, I was to follow after a few months time.
He returned to the states after just 6 weeks, sort of glad now seeing what is going on there that we never moved there and had any roots there.
If you don't try when your young you will never be at peace with yourself. Once you have a family etc. it is harder to make big moves.

disenfranchised wrote:

Thanks Fluffy,

Not expecting nirvana, perhaps less anti-nirvana (if that makes sense?).

Is it a case of all talk, no action? Are things really not too dissimilar to the UK?

Compared to the uk it is very hard to earn a living here. My better paid friends seek employment in Multinational companies in Budapest. If you want to continue working in IT its worth doing job searches and applications before you arrive.
In the city people you make friends with do tend to move on fast. This includes moving back to the uk for better employment prospects.
I am semi retired and work and volunteer for work  part time mainly for social contact. If I wanted to work full time and live in Budapest I would consider gaining a teaching qualification because there is a lot of work available teaching English as a second language.

I have found that the quality of life in Hungary is much higher than in the UK because the crime rate is lower and people are not in your face as much.   Additionally, housing in the countryside and accomodation in Budapest including paying utility bills is much cheaper. For example there is no Council tax.  It was abolished last year in my country district so I no longer pay the £ 60 a year and in town I  just pay £ 6 a month for bin emptying.

Also social entertainment is much more affordable.  And there are many free festivals over the summer. Public transport is also relatively a fraction of the price. I have the advantage of having a holiday home in the countryside so that in the nice weather I always have something to get on with and if my cottage and land was I the UK I would never have afforded it.

However the cost of day to day living such as buying food, clothing and household electronics and furnishings is more expensive. Over the past two years the cost of rents and buying property in Budapest has more than doubled. I could not afford to buy my apartment now and many larger properties are being converted into pokey one room  studios. But  it is still cheap to rent and buy outside of the city areas.

If you are really interested in making the move I would suggest keeping your home in the UK for as long as possible and start off with longer visits so that you really get more experience of the country.
Learning the language is also a big boon and there are some really good apps available on line for starters. English is spoken a little in the city but very rarely in the countryside.
I don't tend to get involved in the political life in either country. On paper both Hungary and the UK appears horrendous but in reality both can be friendly and welcoming.

anns wrote:

For example there is no Council tax.  It was abolished last year in my country district so I no longer pay the £ 60 a year and in town I

Property tax is still assessed where I live. And I still must pay it. And there are other local taxes I must pay as well, such as to the local "grape grower community" because I have a vineyard.

Every local jurisdiction has the right to adjust property, or any other, tax as they see fit, and apply any tax they wish at any time. So where one lives will depend on what taxes you have to pay, and how much.

And..... since each local jurisdiction, down to the village size, can apply any tax they want at any time from a simple local government vote.... Which means maybe 4,000 different tax possibilities. And equally, one should not assume that some other taxes may not appear in the future. Ergo, it can be difficult for one to future plan local taxation in Hungary.

I would think IT jobs would pay better then teaching English would.
I know an American women who came to HU last fall to teach English in a village.
She said most need of teachers who know English are in villages and small towns.
There are some placements in Budapest and other cities but those are in high demand for teachers, much easier to get hired if you're willing to move to the boonies.
They require  a degree and a 6 month teaching online course and then about 20 hours of volunteer teaching before they hire you.
She got the job through an agency and paid up front for them to handle all her work permits etc.
She gets free rent although I have no idea what sort of flat they set her up in, she was asked to move to another flat after her first month in HU.
They pay the rent so she couldn't really refuse to move.
Take home pay is about $600. a month but after she was hired and arrived in Hungary they added a few more villages for her to teach at within about a 45 min bus/tram ride from the school where she was suppose to teach full time. Something like 2 days work outside the school close to her. Lots of travel back and forth between villages by bus or tram or train.
Seems they pulled a few tricks on her after she was already hired and paid to fly herself over to HU.
Hard to say no after you're already here and unpacked etc.
She signed up for one year, not sure if she will renew her contract or not.
Doesn't seem like allot of money for all that is required of her but then again it is an adventure?
If you can work at home online, that would be really good.
My friend here in Vegas is half way through a online IT course, been 2 years now of daily study and work on the computer but she plans on moving to Europe and wants to be able to make real money at home as a web designer.
I know she will do it, now working as a hairdresser but learned to drive a semi-truck a couple years back as her ex-husband was a driver and she wanted to team up driving with him.
Not bad for a short tiny little lady from Puerto Rico who is a granny.
She plans on moving to Scotland and finding herself a Highlander!