ExPat Fatigue

I read your post, then I reread it.
First, my condolences. To have a loving plan for the future and then it is destroyed, certainly cuts deep.
I hear the criticism in many posts about Expats coming to the DR and expecting it to be different. 😳
I may very well, be anticipating something that's a mirage....
That's the exact reason I am bouncing around this forum, asking questions, I want to pick up EVERY hint or opinion I can. I already have a couple of favorite commenters.
I know, full well, it's coming from experience, of which, in this venue, I have ZERO. Add to the fact, that you don't know, what you don't know and every response is fantastic.
I hear people mention some of the complications in the DR. undependable electric and water service. I will drill a well and get solar
I notice they mention the locals will lie or cheat. Only if you let them.
That's true no matter where you are.
I am only looking for something
NOT BORING..
THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC

That's my problem....!!
If I don't know ANYBODY, how do I find somebody trustworthy ?
It has taken me a long time to establish the relationships that I rely on now. Even getting a referral, who do I get the referral from ? 😳😳
Obviously, it will depend upon, where I actually settle.
Just askin.... Because, I know I'm not the only one.

Donny - what is critical is to do what works for you!    If you need to go back once in a while then do that!   Don't let anyone try to shame you for your coping mechanisms. 

I have not left the country in years. I don't feel a need to.  That's me.   I do travel around this country whenever I feel the need and that is enough for me!

Getting security of some form when you are out of town will be necessary.  What form it takes depends on many factors.  Be very careful who you trust is my advice.

Enjoy the process of discovering your place.

How do you find someone to trust?  Great question. It's not easy.  Ask for referrals.  Trial and error.  Start testing someone you think is trustworthy with small things.  Watch for any red flags.  Have backup! 

Trust is earned and not automatic!

Precisely.
Finding the right people is the key to success in EVERYTHING.
Getting a referral is only good if the person giving it is a good judge of character.
Hey, they could even be part of the setup.  😱

I am not, an ALL or NOTHING person
I compromise. Fair is fair.
While I desire to relocate, it's not to get a new life, it is to add on to the one I enjoy now. Not looking for a time-share, I'm looking for an experience and the fact that it's DIFFERENT from what I do now......
Is the ENTIRE point.

Be cautious with referrals! There seems to be a good bit of quid pro quo in related industries - real estate, construction, furnishing for example. When you get a referral to someone, ask the referee how they know them, if they are a satisfied customer, if they've seen the person's work, if they would hire them, if they can put you in touch with people their referral has worked with. Bob might be a great surfer or be fun to sit and have a beer with, but if I'm looking for a landscaper, those two things really don't matter.

In the US, we used Angie's List. If we needed to hire someone for a job, that was our go-to source. We read the reviews to determine a shortlist of folks to call/interview (depending on the extent of the job). Unfortunately, there isn't anything like that here! The closest thing is a local Facebook group, Everything Las Terrenas. I think these same groups exist all over the country.  People will ask for recommendations and it's easy to spot the self-serving, self-promoting responses. You will also quickly see a pattern of the same names coming up multiple times. Those are the ones you then start looking into - asking people what their experience has been, why they are recommending them.

You'll also find that many people. both Dominicans and expats, are jacks-of-all-trades. The expats who have to work, many of whom are here illegally, seem to be the worst about exaggerating their experience or credentials. They can't find a real job because of their immigration status, so it's all side gigs for cash - whatever puts money in their pockets to pay the rent and buy the next round of Presidente! As I said in another thread, if you have two hands and a bottle of lotion, you're a massage therapist! The same goes for builders, landscapers, decorators, movers...you name it and someone with little to no experience will step up and say they can do it for you...and their drinking buddies are happy to refer them!

ARE YOU AN EXPAT OR AN IMMIGRANT? IT’S ONLY A WORD AFTER ALL…

Economic migration is not just the movement of people looking for a better life or a new start in a new country.  It is also the movement of highly skilled employees, often with their families, being carefully and often expensively relocated to a foreign country at the request of their employer.

EXPAT OR IMMIGRANT?

In today’s language, most people would consider the first group of people immigrants and the second group expatriates – from a Western point of view.  But how accurate and how fair are these labels?

Let’s look at the Oxford Dictionary definition of both as a starting point:

Expatriate:  A person who lives outside their native country

Immigrant:  A person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country

In an article published in The Guardian, the definition of an expatriate is quoted similarly.  However, The Guardian article explores the use of the term expatriate or expat more deeply.  Specifically, they question why white people are called expats when others are called immigrants.

One argument is that the word expat is used to distinguish between privileged (more often than not white) and other groups of people also relocating to another country.

CAUSE FOR DEBATE

However, many people commenting on The Guardian article had their own observations and were not always in agreement with the article.  For example, many people commented that citizens relocating from the newer EU countries to older EU member states are also called immigrants.

Thus, recently arrived Polish citizens living in the UK would almost certainly be called immigrants and not expats although they are almost certainly likely to be white.  So perhaps the definition of privilege isn’t exactly black or white … or any other colour.  And anyone who has worked in Japan will almost certainly endorse the Japanese notion of the position of outsiders as being clearly less than equal to the Japanese – an example of expats, including white ones, being regarded as inferior.

An expat might equally receive cultural training and support while an immigrant is left to navigate the new culture on their own.

VIEWED FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE

Many people who have experience working in locations where expatriate “labour” has been traditionally imported for a long period of time probably have a different view to the view published in the article.  These locations may include the Gulf States of the Middle East, Singapore, and Hong Kong.  Interestingly, in these countries, the established pecking order is based much more on nationality than it is on skin colour.  The Guardian quotes a blog run by the Wall Street Journal that explores this topic.

For example, an American or British employee of Asian or African origin might be observed more carefully by a citizen of the host country, especially if their dress, mannerisms and other cues seem Western.  Once confirmed (native-accent English spoken publically by the person being observed usually does the trick), the British Asian banker of African American sales executive is labelled as an expat as well due to their national identity, especially in the work environment.

However, their Bangladeshi or Nigerian counterparts, even those doing the same jobs, are probably labelled guest workers.  The label immigrant does not enter the equation as these countries do not normally provide a path to naturalised citizenship.  Furthermore, losing one’s job earns the employee a trip back to their home country – ironically:  repatriation.

Guest workers in the above example may sit lower in the pecking order than expats, but their education and skills are at least acknowledged.  Unskilled or low skilled people in these countries and in a host of other developing countries are often simply called labourers and often worse.  Slave labour is not unknown in some host countries.

It is also true that countries may establish a pecking order based on other social factors, such as age, gender, and even bloodline.  In the Middle East, for example, a Westerner of Arab origin may be treated differently than other compatriots simply due to their heritage, sometimes awkwardly if they have lost some of that knowledge if their family emigrated generations ago.

USE OF LABELS

Maybe we should reconsider the Oxford Dictionary’s definition of expatriates and immigrants.  Rather than focussing on pecking order due to personal characteristics, the focus is on the intent of the person relocating, thus perhaps being a bit more fair to everyone.

Using labels for one another to define difference is not new and can possibly be argued as human nature.  But it is also human nature to apply these labels from one’s own point of view.  Maybe we should reconsider the Oxford Dictionary’s definition of expatriates and immigrants.  Rather than focussing on pecking order due to personal characteristics, the focus is on the intent of the person relocating, thus perhaps being a bit more fair to everyone.

No disrespect to donnyP or anyone else who chooses to reside here and relocate back home from time to time. My reference to 'cop out' is based upon my past 'expat' life.

I started my 'expat' experience many years ago as a young construction professional working afar. I had no possibility of returning home because of fatigue for at least one year as my contract. This has been the case ever since working overseas. In these times of easy international travel is the word 'expat' still meaningful or are we all emigrants, immigrants or overseas retirees, perpetual tourists or other?

In reality I guess I am an 'immigrant' here now having made this my permanent home and being married to a Dominican.

Wow !!
You hit the nail on the head....
Over the years, I have come across an enormous amount of people who talk the talk, but, don't have a clue.
I happen to be a contractor on Angie's list/ Home advisor 😁😁
It's a balance that I have no problem with where I am. I have been doing it constantly. It actually is a FEAR that I would have, about picking the best conman. It's not a matter of,  "will someone steal my jewelry".....
I don't even own jewelry !!  Serious.
My prized possessions are my tools and equipment. They're not being brought to the DR. 😁.  My main concern is vandalism, neglect and the temporary appearance of abandonment. Like all have suggested, a landscaper is primary.
That's not hard to do, all I have to do is, go look at the other yards that he maintains. The proof is in the pudding. Also, I would NEVER buy a property anywhere, before I met and had a conversation with the immediate neighbor. If they look like trouble, you're stuck with them.
Never gonna happen. !!!   I'd rather move to the other side of the island.
If they are legitimate, I would work to be " THE BEST NEIGHBOR EVER"
A method that I use is quite basic.
I track down the local letter carrier and ask them about the surrounding they seem to know everybody's business. Five bucks get you front row seats. 🤪.  I don't even know if they have letter carriers.
I Know it's going to be a project and I don't mind. Research, Research..,.
I follow the policy of.....
Why is it, you never have the time to do it right, but, you ALWAYS have the time to do it over ???
Thanks.  Yours always seem to be a good post. I'm listening.. 👍

donnyD wrote:

I track down the local letter carrier and ask them about the surrounding they seem to know everybody's business. Five bucks get you front row seats. 🤪.  I don't even know if they have letter carriers.

  At least you've picked up enough to question whether there are letter carriers! In Las Terrenas, we don't have addresses and many streets aren't named! You give directions based on landmarks ("Go to the Cemetary and take a right. It's just past where the guy sells coconuts."), GPS coordinates, named Villas on Google Maps, or by sending your location in WhatsApp!

It's actually easier, using MBE or CPS, to get something from the US than it is to get something across the country! It took us about 6 months to get our insurance cards, and because of an issue I had with reimbursement directly to my bank account, I had to wait until someone was coming to Las Terrenas to get a check (which I then lost for about 5 weeks). Another check, a refund for overpayment of port charges, was sent UPS from Santo Domingo. We had to get a friend who is fluent in Spanish on the phone with the driver to explain to him how to get to us!

Dear AngelX

12 posts

I appreciate straight shooters!  I find Dominicans are the opposite. Allways "beating around the bush".   Well, everyone is different so I dont like to generalize too much.

You said this...

I relocated to the DR here with my fiancé (a US born southerner) so we could get married and settle down—she was my best friend.  We lived in the mountains up in Jarabacoa where she died last June in the midst of COVID.  I decided to stay, ALONE.
It was a rough adjustment, but I (we’ll) all get through those rough patches.

I am so very sorry to hear about your best friend/wife and how hard it must be for you now.  Atleast you do not see her suffer now.  Its about a year since that happened.   I often read these kind of posts (like the paramedic who has posted on the motorcycle chat, who had people die in his arms, because they got injured and did not wear a helmet, he stated his only son died that way, how that must break your heart too), and its too late to say something.  So I just wanted to say, that we care and send you love to fill that broken heart. Take care.   If we happen to come to Jarabacoa, I will look you up.  Just to say hello and have a cool drink.  Carlos and I have never been to the mountains, so hope to get there one day.

Very refreshing DonnyD.  You sound like you have a good plan and its going to keep you busy and life interesting!   Have fun and keep posting!  Maybe we will meet one day in our travels, that would be great.

It's difficult for someone who has not been OPENLY discriminated against, to comprehend the impact.
Having said that, I would like to ask, if it's JUST a label, does it really matter ?? My answer would be NO.
Of course, it usually means more and everyone knows it.
Being "categorized" or "labeled" when used in that context must suck
But, it doesn't matter who you are... EVERYBODY has a "reputation"
I do. Guess what ? I have many .😇
It does come down to, which will they do ?  Live up to the reputation or down to the negative "stereotype"
Unfortunately, there are people who migrate for one reason or another and when they do it out of desperation, they probably don't bring their best game with them. Then there are those that migrate, for less than stellar reasons and they bring their own ghetto with them. That's where a negative stereotype begins.
I would LOVE to tell the story of my first "migration"....
I had just gotten divorced.
I had just gone through 9/11
I was going to be forcibly retired.
.......I wasn't happy.
Every evening, I would be at my friend's shop, hanging out.
His wife would always get on the computer and go to Realtor.com and type in Mebane (a town in NC )
her siblings had moved near there.
I was familiar with it. A charming town.
I am a computer imbecile. I can build you a house from the foundation to the roof, but, sending an email ,not so good....
I KNEW I needed a change.
I went home called to have internet turned on, the only thing I knew how to do is Realtor.com/Mebane.
Here comes a 4bed/2bath 3acre brick ranch foreclosure . CHEAP !
Ridiculously cheap.  1picture.
A mistake.
I called the realtor.... SOLD !! 👍
I travel 500 miles. WOW !!
OMGoodness 😗 this small part of town was exclusively Afro/American
WHO CARES ??!!  IT'S BEAUTIFUL !!
I worked in Harlem for 10years during a crack epidemic of the 90's.
First person I meet, my next door neighbor"Chuckie"(God rest his soul)
Lightest skin black man you ever met
I used to kid him to work on his tan.
I ,was darker than him 😳
Had a 4th of July barbecue, the whole damn neighborhood showed up !!  I loved it !!
Then it happened....
Decided to refinance $$$
An appraiser showed up.
A white guy.
He asked me " what's the difference, between a Yankee and a damn Yankee"  haha, what ?
"A Yankee comes to visit and goes home.... A damn Yankee comes and stays". Okay, a joke. Haha.
It wasn't what he said, it was what he meant, and how he said it.
I can't tell you all the things I told him, Planner would throw me off the forum. But, I wanted to know if he was born that stupid or did it require training ?
Here I am, paying this idiot $400, to come into my house and demonstrate how much of an ignorant bigot he was.
This was in the same country.
The same language.
Same ethnicity.
But, he wanted to bring up the     Civil war.  150 years ago !!!
I can't imagine what would happen if I was faced with genuine discrimination.
Certain, some of the DR locals will test me. Certain, I need caution.
But, for some reason, I don't imagine being discriminated against.
Will I be .... ???

Thank you,
I look forward to things like that.

Ya see !!
GRASSROOTS INFO....
I had no idea.
Thank you.
I love it. 😄

I laughed really hard over the concept of a letter carrier.  There are none. 

Substitute local colmado owner.  Local salon or barbershop owner.  They know everything and everything and everybody!

LOL...
It's proof that, I don't know, what I don't know. 😄
I'm probably going to become a nuisance on this forum.
It's like the old days, when someone told a joke, I would remember 10 more jokes.
Here, someone mentions a topic and my mind starts spinning questions.
I must have ADHD 😳
I am approx. 9 months away from traveling, but, I have been pondering this for a looong time.
Not going to learn too much Spanish in 9 months, but, it's going to be more than I know now.

Hey,
Just had an idea...
How bout we start a postal service ?
We could deliver for Amazon etc.
Next day delivery, 6 million pesos 😁

Hahahahaha.  For that we have mail forwarders honey. 

Donny I am going to recommend you open a thread.  It's a place for you to put all your questions and ponderings!!!!

And every single one of us was like this at one point or another!  18 years here and I learn something new about this place every day!!!

Concerning referrals:
My method to get an idea about the reliability of recommendations and referrals is:
- up to now I know a handful of Dominicans
- I put the same question to all of them
- they do not know each other
If I get my answers, I assess if they all do point into a similar or different direction.
The rest is risk or feeling.
And I learn, who of them is more reliable.

****

Hola Thomas,
You are as new to Expats, as I am.
The question...... what are my expectations ?  Is a terrific question.
I was wondering, if YOU would answer it for ME.
Que' podi'a espera ?
What is likely to happen when I step off the plane in Santiago ?
Are the signs in Ingle's                     
Am I going to be perdio'
No hablo Espanol.
Cuantos pesos for taxi 3km ?
You say your people are pobre,
Es seguro for a gringo to travel alone
See what I am saying ?
I have more questions than you and I didn't even get out of the airport.
Probably didn't even ask it correctly. Amigo,I don't have "expectations"
I have curiosidad. I have a want to see diferente places. I want to be sorprendido, but, in a good way.
I probably know only 20 other words or phrases in Spanish.
Now, what you can expect from me.
I will be polite.
I'm usually generous, except if I feel uneasy / vulnerable.
I will be patient, unless it is best for me to leave.
I will be appreciative of any kind help
Most of all, I will be very aware that I am only a guest in someone else's home.  I only treat people the way, I wish to be treated.
I have never been told, that I have a bad attitude.... until I have been mistreated.     Adio's
                 Nos vemos pronto
I can't think of anymore of my weak Spanish that I can jam in here. 😘

Going to ask to get back on topic please.  Thanks everyone.

Planner,
I don't even know how to open a thread. I just keep responding to something, someone says that makes me wonder.😗
I will catch on to this.
I hope 😱

I absolutely understand. 

Go to the top of the page; there is what looks like a house then forums / Dominican republic / everyday life

Click on Dominican republic.  That page is all the forum threads honey.  Look through those for both "pinned" threads and recent threads.  We have a whole variety.  That is where you can open a new thread!   

Got it... 👍
BRACE FOR IMPACT !!

Hey Planner,
I just took some time and did a side by side comparison of my posts and those of many others.
After I performed this critique, it kinda occurred to me, that I am out of my league.
Yours and many others, seem concise, wise and brief.                 
Mine not so much.
I think, having dwelled on this adventure internally for so long and then suddenly finding a place where people talk about it casually and with experience, puts me at a temporary disadvantage.
It seems that, as soon as I start typing, I stop thinking. Rambling.
My Grampa used to say....
Empty barrels make the most noise.
I Know it's just my mental adrenaline kickin in. I noticed, that I had taken on a few topics, certainly without experience, just plain drive.
I usually don't respond to anything like a flash in the pan, but, for some reason, these threads get me going .
Hence, I will be on a sabbatical from posting, only to get my thoughts lined up. ( probably put on paper, so I can critique them BEFORE I post them 🤢) But, that DOES NOT mean, I will not be following along.
I appreciate your advice and your composure. 🥰🥰🥰
Adio's por ahora   Gracias
Donny D

No problem. We all communicate differently.  Take your time.  Post whenever you need or want.  All of us will help and respond when appropriate!

FYI I often write longer posts in a word document, fix and review and then copy and paste on here!