Forestry Land Advice

To me, it sounds like a right faff, but if you're hankering to be a landed gentleman, then I suppose Bulgaria is still a pretty cheap place to do it. :-)

Advantages:
Probably the cheapest EU country to buy your own forest. If you think Bulgaria prices are going up, then it might (one day) be a profitable investment. I'd imagine there might be a way to repurpose the land for agriculture and claim EU subsidies. I'd guess that you don't need any planning/building permission to throw a cabin on caravan on there, and have a little retreat in the middle of nowhere. (But it will have to be eco- with composting toilet, solar panels, a well, and so on. My neighbour has a well-digging machine and charges about one thousand euros, depending on depth.) Low property taxes.

Disadvantages:
Have to form a company to own it. Not an income-producing investment (unless you manage to sustainably cut/sell the wood from your trees - which sounds like quite a bit of work, and not much income, especially as the woodland plots I've seen on Ebay and elsewhere are quite small). Probably hard to build a proper house on it. Have to manage/maintain the land, so this is a bit of an expense. Especially if you fence it all to discourage visitors / firewood seekers.

Theft of trees:
You would own the land and the trees, and I'm sure Bulgaria recognizes your rights legally. But enforcing this, especially when living elsewhere is probably challenging. My village house in the Balkan Mountains is next to lovely hillside forests, and I'd guess they are public lands, and most likely have some state protection (and probably much better than it used to be, as neighbouring Shipka was pretty much deforested 50 years ago, but has now recovered). But folks still rock up and help themselves... some are small timers with their car and a few logs, but others come with a larger truck and chop down and strip whole trees. So I'd guess your forest would be fair game too. With fence/signs, I'd guess that most would go elsewhere, but not much you can do if they simply cut your gate chain and go in to help themselves. I think the theft issue becomes more significant if you put a cabin on the land, or keep tools there... in which case, it's very hard to invest in the land unless you're planning to live on it/near it.

Hi Gwyn

Thanks so much for your in depth reply..., certainly has given me plenty of further thoughts.
I guess that when you see these plots of land at a reasonable price, it’s hard to get them out of your mind. I’m thinking what’s the worse that could happen for instance all trees gone and left with a bare piece of land, probably that’s an extreme, but I think the most important issue at the moment to me is that if I decided to go ahead and then decided it wasn’t for me in say five years time, I wonder if my investment would have a safe return ?  , probably a fifty fifty assurance !
Just the thought of a bit of land to wonder in with a small cabin still sounds so appealing.
Further thoughts that maybe I should make a point of seeing the access and also what is and isn’t nearby..., I’m thinking the New Year will be filled with many thoughts. (  I can nearly hear somebody whispering in my ear, ‘ he must be mad ‘ )
This longing for land has stayed with me from childhood, I just never thought it might be possible despite how far away.

Sorry,  I hope I didn't sound too negative! :-) It's nice to own a bit of land, I can see the attraction.

There's one on Ebay right now, with 3,500 m2 of land, and should go quite cheaply.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334268773346 … Sw-lVhrSa6

I doubt folks would completely strip the land, but I suppose it's possible. I think if you're not really worried about the trees, then it seems a pretty secure investment, as long as you buy it at a sensible price. Prices do seem to be increasing significantly in Bulgaria, so getting your money back seems entirely plausible.

There are houses with large gardens of 2,000 or 3,000 m2 around too. And if the house is a ruin, then these aren't very expensive either. But this has the advantage of being regulated land, and closer to civilization, and with easier access to electricity and mains water and internet. So perhaps this option is worth considering too.

Another Ebay listing here with 2,600 m2 regulated for maybe a couple of grand.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154759988212 … Swzs5gDx4M

Thanks Gwyn
Your comments made were certainly not taken as negative in fact the opposite as food for further thought especially when it comes to buying a bit of land with property already on the land, my only thought here is then the amount of land tends to be considerably smaller but certainly far more accessible...., maybe it could be that I do go for this option with a property and plant many trees ?
I’m just in the thought process at the moment, but do wish that the Covid travel situation would improve in order to do a few visits without the need for extra PCR costs etc.
Nice to have a bit of Christmas holiday from work and browse the websites for what’s on offer, although I do think you have to search hard for genuine advice like yours.
Much obliged.

Bulgarian Properties is a big agent with lots of listings, so it's always good for a bit of research. Here's the search for forests under 75k, which might give you some food for thought:

https://www.bulgarianproperties.com/Sea … p;c=Search

There are two in Apriltsi, on the north side of the Balkan Mountains, where you could snap them both up for 65,000 UKP and get 42 acres of old forest.  Very scenic. :-)

The access to a forest block may well be an issue - I've seen one seller with multiple small forest plots on ebay, and it appears they are also selling the access tracks as "plots". Which raises the question of how anyone else accesses their plot. Presumably by paying the owner of the track for right of access over their land! So that is definitely one to check.
It probably depends what you truly want. Your own little piece of wilderness, a BIG piece of wilderness, or a bit of land with trees and some sort of basic dwelling? As Gywn pointed out, a village block with a tumbledown house on it may be a better option, unless you really want a place in the middle of nowhere with wilderness all around, or want a big chunk of land.
Most abandoned village blocks become overgrown very quickly. If you go for this option, rather than planting new trees, you may find the first need is to thin the existing self-seeded trees!
I chose a half-acre village block with an old house on it, but I do admit to still hankering after a little piece of wilderness. I'll probably just buy the half-acre wild block next door!
Edited to add - I paid a British agent in Bulgaria £4,400 for my place, but he bought it for 3,400 lev! For me it was worth it for how easy and stress-free buying from the agent was, but bear in mind that if you can speak some Bulgarian or have Bulgarian friends, you may find you can get property at a far better price than the agents' listed prices.

Hi Jane

Thanks so much for your advice, all taken onboard.
I’m thinking perhaps best to go with a little ruin on a big garden plot. .., Thoughts of me standing under a leaking roof as I watch the trees
growing ! LOL. On the other hand, an old house would make ideal shelter for perhaps some livestock ? , now that would be the perfect reason to stay forever.
I think as we start 2022 I should sort my list of what’s required for total  relaxation :
Shovel
Pruning shears
Loppers
Chainsaw
Good book about keeping chickens !
Must sort something for this year and get that ground prepared !
Best wishes for 2022.

LOL! Sounds like you have some fun ahead, John! Enjoy!
If you're not an EU citizen and want to stay for longer than 90 days, you may want to read up on D visas, too.

According to Bulgarian laws foreigners cannot own any land.

The only way is to organise a Bulgarian company. The company can own land.

Yes, you are correct, soreshn. But setting up a company that is purely to own land and won't do business is not such a difficult thing and should cost less than $500 EUR. The original psoter would certainly need a Bulgarian company to buy either a house with land or a forest block.

Johnstuart, LOL, at your list for total relaxation! Sounds like fun. Depending what you want, you don't need to clear the entire block. I intend to leave much of mine still wildly overgrown and just clear enough for my needs.

Pay attenion to one very important issue - the land can be "forest", because looks like a forest. But the legal status could be a "agricultural land" for example. In this case you can change the status and build sth there. But if the status is a "forest" then almost everything is forbideen to build there.
Pay attenion to the documnets and get a good lawyer.
And also - buying agricultural land is not so easy as Building plots. But also, a good lawyer also can help. But you need to have enough fundings.

Many thanks Vasilee for the advice..., good to know a bit of the legal aspects. Armed with a bit of knowledge certainly will help for the future.

J.

I have 50,000 square metres in various plots ranging from 7000 to 18000 square metres. I intend to harvest the mature trees and re plant. The oak will be seasoned ove 5 years at my barn.  It will take alot of work but seasoned timber is worth 10 time green timber. I have a limited company and my residency permit in place.  It is a long term project.

Nick

Congratulations!

Thanks

@Vasilev

Thank you Vasiliev for your reply.

It was certainly very helpful and thank you one more time for that.

Could you please point me to any source of information what kind of building I can build on forest land or possibly agricultural land?

Thank you very much in advance.

Hi,

As a general rule of thumb, you are allowed to build anything temporary that does not have a foundation.

So, for instance, you can put a working shed, or even a small cottage, as long as you don't have a cement slab or systems like septic tanks and pipes that go below ground.

There is a ratio for how much SQM you can use for this kind of structure though.

Also, consider that Forest and agricultural land are not monolithic...there are something like ten levels of agricultural land, and whether or not you will be able to convert that into a building plot depends significantly to the quality of the land—same thing for the Forest land classifications.

Here is an example: https://www.bulgarianproperties.com/Bul … _3405.html

@Yuri1976

Thank you Yuri very much for your insight and your link.

It is strongly appreciated.

Is there any regulation or rule or law that you could live in or occupy your building on the forest or agricultural land for limited time (like limited time within a year)?

I understand that it might sound as a weird question, but there are countries with this rule.

Thank you very much for your response again.

@asapfixs1

Welcome to the expat.com forum and good luck with your Bulgaria adventure!

I'm not an expert on the exact rules, but I suspect you can build some kind of off-grid cabin, and stay there indefinitely.

However, while the land is cheap, and it's a very romantic notion to live in a cabin in the woods, my advice (based on my purely personal opinion) would be to avoid forest land unless you specifically want to grow trees as some kind of conservation effort.

That's because I suspect that owning a small plot of forest somewhere will be a headache, and will generate minimal income (if you try to cut and sell the wood). And if you build some kind of dwelling, then it will be an even bigger headache, unless you spend all your time there.

I would suggest that it's a far less stressful option to buy an existing house (in poor repair or a ruin) with a very large plot of land. These will usually have electricity and water services connected, and will often be fenced/walled for privacy and security. You could then build a new house on the existing footprint (no planning/building approval required). Or, you could probably get away with a small off-grid cabin hidden on your land, if that kinda thing appealed. And you can keep your tools, vehicles, bikes, TVs and appliances, and furniture at your place with much less concern about its safety when you go away for a few days.

@asapfixs1

Unlike the UK, there is no max allowed for living on your land.

In the UK, when you own a wood or forest, you are still not allowed to be there for more than 28 days a year, including camping...and this is straight fascism.

But consider that UK citizens are not in the EU anymore, so they can't by law own land and you will need a limited company for that.

Regarding whether or not is a good idea, I cant really say. Everything gwnj said above is reasonable, but not knowing your particular circumstances I can't advise one way or the other. One thing I would advice is restrain.

Don't rush through things. In Bulgaria, buying properties is faster and kind of easier compared to the UK, but it is also more prone to getting screwed. If you use an agent, regardless of what people tell you their reputation is, always use an independent lawyer to double-check all the documents.

Prices are entirely hogwash and pies in the sky, where they try to get in people based on FOMO and/or total delusion. I can only tell you that right now Italy and France are much cheaper than Bulgaria for rural properties and land...I could say a lot there, but I will leave it for other articles; talking about lands, I have seen plots of agricultural land for 270millions EURO... besides the fact that Bulgarian didn't get the memo yet that an acre is 4000sqm and not 1000 sqm (be careful there) unless there are undeniable proofs that there is Uranium and diamonds or remains of UFO crashes on that land (320k sqm...almost 1000 euro per sqm) I can only assume that the poor clerk posting the ad had an epilepsy fit while typing.

@asapfixs1 You can build almost nothing on forestry or agricultural land. Probably you want to build sth for living purposes and pointing in some cheap land. But, remember that everything cheap becomes very expensive at the end

My advise is to find a good consultant and to follow the rules.