Ikamet rejection appeal

@eddie2806 If you rent have an issue, you seem to have enough assets. Ikamet with renting is difficult, you seem to be having enough asstets (go that way (inconvenietnt admittely). Just under new rules buy a house, if your have  nough assets, sorry just leave,

How can it be that you rent and not buy?

@eddie2806 If you do not have USD 4 K you are in a difficult situation, in the US but also Europe, how an this be what is USD 4 K, nothing for most, if you have difficulties with that Turkey is right (not a profitable resident), people have to be able to spend, In my view Turkey is right.

I am in a process of Ikament extension, looks fine, but we will see. People renting, no chance, why do you not buy. Sorry for your situation, but if no assets??

@eddie2806 A lawyer can cost you much, without agreement of success, an agreement no pay no cure can help you, But just paying just USD 4 K what is the problem I think it is sad that you can not arrange for just a few USD

To clarify, are you applying as a first-time applicant or renewing your application? For first-time applicants, it's mandatory to complete an income declaration form. Renewal applicants, on the other hand, are not required to maintain a balance of $4000 in their account. Instead, they should demonstrate a monthly income of at least 17,100 Turkish Lira and provide a six-month Turkish bank statement.

In case of application rejection, you have a 90-day window from your interview date to collect your letter from the migration management. However, if you retrieve your letter earlier, you must depart within 10 days of its signing. It's crucial to ensure that when signing this document, the officer also signs and dates it. This will be a key factor at border gates in determining whether any fines are applicable.

To effectively manage an appeal, it is advisable to file it within 10 days following your application's rejection. If you submit your appeal before any deportation process is initiated, you are permitted to stay in Turkey for the duration of the appeal process. However, if you receive a deportation letter and subsequently file an appeal, you are still required to leave the country within 10 days. Failing to depart within this timeframe results in an overstay. In such cases, a fine of $50 is levied for the first month, followed by $10 for each subsequent month, plus administration fee.

The typical duration for the appeal process is about one year on average.

@d4zt7bsj Hello, i found your reply quite useful.

is that right to say that if we have rental accomodation ( no ownership), we can still apply for ikamat only based on regular income of 1700-1800 lire, and six months bank statement to prove it?

thanks

@cdw057

I don't see a reason why I have to explain to you my life decision, such as renting vs buying. Since you don't have anything helpful to add to this question, please stop responding.

@d4zt7bsj

I am renewing my IKAMET and I do have a proof of my earning.

Thank you for your help, that's a great advice.

@mnaghbash If you are a first-time applicant, it can be difficult to open a bank account in Turkey. Therefore, it is recommended to use apostilled bank statements from your home country. One option is to provide a bank certificate or make a deposit of 17,100 * (6) into a Turkish account, depending on what suits you best. However, before proceeding, please make sure to confirm with the bank if you can withdraw the deposited amount using only your passport. Note that some banks may hold a certain amount, typically $5000, for 90-180 days before releasing it.

You will be asked to fill out a declaration form for tourist applications during the interview. In addition, you may be required to sign an income declaration to prove that you have adequate funds to support your residency on renewal.

If you are renewing your residence permit, you can request your bank to provide you with 6-months of bank statements that are duly signed and stamped. Additionally, their PoA should be attached to these statements. The statements should indicate one or multiple transfers going in more than TL17,100 each month. Alternatively, you can make a one-time transfer in USD or EUR and hold it in an interest account.

Do not forget utility bills under your name and address proof. Everything else is pretty straightforward with the renewal application. It is highly recommended to make 6 to 12-month travel plans, and booking hotel accommodations in advance is highly recommended.

The decision of whether to rent or buy a property is often used as a marketing tool by realtors, but it's not as important as it may seem. In fact, you can rent a home or an apartment or even use a hotel address (extra steps) to obtain tourist residence permits.

As of October 16, 2023, the real estate class B classification for residency by investment costs $200,000 and is considered the path to citizenship. If you purchase a property for less than $200,000, you can still obtain residency, but under class E designation as a touristic residence permit. However, there is no path to citizenship unless you reside in Turkey continuously for 13 years, and it's a multiple-step process.

The base income needed is 17,100 Turkish lira, calculated by multiplying the net salary of 11,400 lira with the migration factor of 1.5.  This will increase on January 01, 2024 and again on or about July 01, 2024 and each year thereafter.

I should add that when applying for a permit for the first time, it's important to remember that the application process can be challenging as it's not as favorable as it used to be prior to December 2022.

Therefore, you should put in your best effort to create a flawless application and ensure that your travel itinerary is well-planned. Additionally, it's crucial to include a solid paragraph explaining why you wish to visit Turkey. Remember, the focus is on your role as a tourist.

Do not mention working in Turkey on the initial declaration form.

If you are applying for Turkish residency, try searching for a sample tourist declaration form and interview questions online. There are a few good resources.

@d4zt7bsj

Many thanks

@d4zt7bsj

Your responses on this subject have been very impressive and helpful.  Thank you.

So I wanted to ask about my circumstance:  I am a retiree living in the U.S. and intend to become an expat in roughly 2 years.  I will pursue an ikamet by investment by purchasing a flat for the minimum $200k but have no interest in Turkish citizenship.  Should I expect any difficulties in obtaining the short term ikamet?  My social security amount exceeds the 17,100 TL PM.  Will I have to maintain a $4k in a Turkish bank and if so, for how long? 

Thanks again.

Rules can change quite quickly in Turkey, the USD 200 K rule might have been abandoned in a year or so (there is so many opposition from tradesmen, restaurant owners and especially from the real estate sector)

I hope your social security is not the only source of income TRY 17.000 is just over USD 500. Many expensive components (some mandatory, some not).

-Aidat

-Health Insurance (we have private insurance, I have to say GREAT service (I had some issues over the last month). But EUR 210 pm for me and my wife. Also SGK (national insurance is possible, but service is ..)

-Smoking/drinking (not needed, but if you do ..)

-Restaurants (joy of life)

-Repairs (even with a USD 200 K property)

-Taxes (local, not expensice, but still). this can change and the mandatory earthquake insurance might go up.

-Extention of Ikamet (or even inital filing) can be expensive (for the filing we paid in total I think TRY 30.000 (offical TRY 19.000, but a bit support is easy)

-Telephone/Netflix/.. Cheap in |Turkey, but still EUR 20 pm

My conclusion, if you have your own property plus TRY 17.000 possible, but a lavish life (??) and be prepared for surprises in rules. I trust you can deal with things yourself, but support (with tips are needed).

We spend  EUR 2K or EUR 3K (depending on also visits to hospitals), we are happy, but living on USD 600 pm (even if we are owners)??

The inital deposit of a few K USD should not be a problem, first of all buying a property of USD 200 K(it is massive). Your agent should be able to arrange for something (they get massive commissions)

USD 200 K purchase is possible then a small deposit should not be an issue (and it is not lost)

@mnaghbash most welcome.

@Gino_C Thank you for your kind words. I want to clarify that the cost of healthcare premiums may vary depending on your age. The cost of residency by investment can serve as a foundation for obtaining citizenship, but it is not mandatory. You can also opt for short-term residency by investing. However, many people prefer to apply for permanent residency after 8 years on short term or continue their 2-year permit short-term renewal process.

Examples of short-term residency by renting or owning a home based on age and citizenship. A US citizen aged 62 pays 10,000 TRY, while a 48-year-old citizen pays 8,000 TRY. A 33-year-old citizen pays 7,700 TRY, and a 20-year-old citizen pays 7,400 TRY.  If you're a 68-year-old person from the United States, you would only be required to pay 6,400 Turkish Lira. Some nationalities are exempt, while others pay less. A Norwegian pays 14,000 for the same permit. This includes the average fee charged by a legal agency.

The cost difference for residency is primarily based on the applicant's age and nationality. As long as you maintain a Turkish bank account and utilities registered in your name and address, there should be no issues.

There are additional costs involved in the process of renting a property, such as notary and translation fees. When buying a home, there are additional fees such as realtor fees, which range from 2% to 4% depending on the agreement, notary, and translation, and lawyer fees which are estimated to be around $3500.

When it comes to renting, the cost is calculated based on a two-month deposit, which could be, for example, 10,000 for the first and second months, plus an additional month's rent. For instance, if the monthly rent is 10,000, the first payment would be 30,000, and thereafter, the rent would be 10,000 per month.

Rent: TL10,000 per month.

Deposit: TL10,000 (refundable at the end of the lease).

Key money: TL10,000 (non-refundable gift).

I hope this clears up any confusion. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

I don't foresee the 200,000 residency by investment dropping anytime soon. According to our conversation with NUFUS last week, the citizenship by investment route is actually increasing again in a few months. It's estimated to be around $500,000-1,000,000.  This is because Turkey's attractiveness is increasing, making it a viable option for obtaining residency in the USA or UK. We'll have to see but you can't go wrong with an investment in Turkey as you can see property value has increased steadily in past years. Plus Turkiye now is past the 100-year anniversary and is free now to explore natural resources.

@d4zt7bsj Conclusion as an expat with EUR 600 pm is difficult? (as in most countries by the way)

@Gino_C Really a shame you did not post over the last few weeks, your posts tended to be good and with good questions, did you abandon the Turkey idea?

By the way in any case my wife got confirmation over the Ikamet for the next two years (not me (yet), perhaps the IT systems have a hick up), but I am happy for this very much.

@d4zt7bsj Hello and thanks for your input. can i ask when we open bank account to use for paying bills, could it be in foreign Currency? or should be in Lira?

@mnaghbash Easy, we have in TRY and EUR (We use Garanti)

@cdw057, Hello

i only want to have the account in £  currency, not in Lira. Would that be fine to pay the bills?

I think an account in TRY is needed for automated debits, just convert (online) a small GBP once a while, also good for cash machines. Apologies why do you do not want a TRY account?

The vast assets are in EUR account, TRY is good to pay bills, utility and cash.

@cdw057,

I prefer £ currency because i do not live in turkey and will only visit for coming years before I retire.  Also,  knowing the Lira keeps droping in value, I rather keep account in £.

KR

@mnaghbash Still you have to pay your bills? And having cash for restaurants, hairdresser, market .. is useful. converting with exchange offices or even at a bank GBP in TRY is expensive, but your choice

@mnaghbashJust a balance of GBP 1000 (in TRY)should be good for quite some time (apart from alcohol in supermarkets)

@cdw057, yes, i agree, i am not big fan of alcohol, so, that is my winning point.

@mnaghbash Still a small balance in TRY is a good thing to have (meaning an account in TRY (and for that matter and GBP/EUR/USD)

Why not to open a TRY account, I do not understand. (day to day life (even if on holidays) is needed)

One can open accounts in many currencies, but TRY in Turkey is easy and cheap and the conversion is not too expensive.

@cdw057

I agree🙏

On Ikamet extention, I am happy to received it for me and my wife (even if a closed district), but we did everything correctly, by the way nobody asks us for financial assets.

What is needed

-Marriage certificate (with Apostille)

-Passport

-The Ikamet

-Tapu

-Proof of Health Insurance for 2 years (a shame as we are already privately insured but they do not want to do contracts for 2 years)

-Taxes paid

-Photographs (bio), easiest thing to do

Not much more even if we prepared many other documents.

@cdw057 Perhaps a bit off topic, but things were expensive in December for the extention.

1. The extention of private health insurance for the both of us TRY 110.000 (but in other countries not cheaper I would think (us being older))
2. The Ikamet process (including tips) TRY 30.000
3. I bought cigarettes for 3 or even for 4 months (cheap, very cheap for Europe though). I have to say it was a bit depending on Ikamet. But still 300 packages.

Extrapolated on the year it is fine, but I have to say things are getting more expensive (also in hard currencies)

1. Restaurants
2. Alcohol
3. Electricity (but for us a minor thing, for those using airco a lot it is an issue)
4. Day to day shopping, but not a major issue, but one notices increases quite a bit
5. Medicines (I use quite a bit nowadays)

We have a budget of EUR 3.000 per month but in December we definitely spent more (annualizing it is still fine though, I feel however we go over this year)

Still I am VERY happy that we got our Ikamet.

What we do if rejected, we have a property we can not really sell right now.

@cdw057

Your stated 3k euro pm is a substantial increase from when we we were saying $1500 to $2000 pm sometime this summer.  What amount of the 3000 euro is fixed expenses like utilities,  food, gas, rent/aidet etc.? 

Also, the 110k TL or $3,680 for health insurance is a big surprise as well.  I thought medical costs in Turkey were a fraction of the costs in the United States.  Medical debt is the number one reason for bankruptcy in the United States.

Thanks for sharing your information.  It's useful to understand costs for those of us planning to become expats in Turkey.

The health insurance is for both of us, not cheap I have to admit, but an excellent service and coverage (we are both a bit older).

The EUR 3 K is high but very driven by restaurants, alcohol and smoking (in total easy EUR 1500 pm)

You could conclude that without vices for 2 EUR 1500/1600 pm is fine.

Fixed expenses are low, very low (electricity, water, gas). I count max (and that is high EUR 50 pm)

Ikamet is a different matter, do you take assistance or do it yourselves (we took a agency, not so expensive I have to say TRY 30 K for 2 years is not too bad (taxes, service of the company and paying the intermediator)

Netflix/Audible/Telephone/Internet in total EUR 50 should be more then fine.

I do not know exactly, but I read meat is becoming expensive, I count EUR 400 pm (depending on restaurants visits)

My wife goes shopping to the market and wool shop, also sometimes goes to hairdresser (max EUR 250 pm)

Public transport (where we live, but I rarely use (apart from going to the hospital) is VERY VERY cheap (a few cents)

Aidat, depends where you live and what service you expect, it can be as low as TRY 900 pm (too low) or TRY 3000 pm (still cheap (comparing with eg europe))

Local taxes very low (I count EUR 200 per year)

Things go wrong or have to be repaired I count EUR 100 pm (probably too high, but if things go really wrong, things get expensive)

Tips for service (we count EUR 100 pm for real estate agent which admittedly arranges for almost everything (changing driving license, electriciy and water bills, bank account, Ikamet exention, accompaning to hospital and dealing with insurance, helping with buying furniture/TV/Phone (including of contracts)

Many more things to say, but vices (if nice) can take up to 50% of the budget

If taking a modest approach (very modest) for two, EUR 1600 should work, but then again what is joy of life.