Change of pace

If you like the slow life, the interior of São Paulo (Marília region) might be calling your name. Lots of horses and farms and cows out here, but not so rural that you don't have access to goods and services. Plus things here are way cheaper than they'd be in São Paulo city, although if you need to go there it's only a 100 BRL overnight bus ride away. If you want to go even more rural, there are a host of small towns around here as well, including the smallest settlement in the whole state, Bora.

@StarkHorizon

Thanks, we are both being a bit stubborn.  She wants a completely different state. We both like the north east but the region is prone to droughts. She says we will have to do an analysis after I get back in February.

She is tired of working for lawyers as she feels that they don't treat her well and the commute is long both ways.

She works hard but is tired and just wants to finish her last 2 years of veterinarian school.

    Me and my wife had a disagreement today. She wants to move to Portugal now, after all the work and effort I put into immigrating to brazil. She hates her job, which pays well and hates the city. I hate the city as well.
I suggested we start a homestead in brazil and if we don't make it in a year or two we can think about Portugal.

We both like slow pace, safety  and rural life over city.

We can grow vegetables and raise animals like chickens.

I can give english classes to children in the rural area free or very cheap.

Sell jams and so on.

What do others think of that as an idea?
   

Portugal is not becoming a such a hot idea lately.....

Here's why

1.It has become expensive, as much as in France for the cost of housing.  They had a longstanding winter birds such as the Britts, the Russians, and Scandinavians.

2. Now, you have an influx of Brazilians ( who are not getting the welcome  mat anymore,. as Brazilians tend to wear their welcome pretty quicly ). Several incidents to that account.

3.Plus the influx of Americans, Russians, Ukranians and Africans, and surprisingly Italians They are getting resented by the locals.  It is palpable, and no longer a tongue in cheek. And the gossip runs wild.

4.Jobs are not given outright to foreigners, unless they are  connected.  The famoso "Tacho" is an evidence that good paying jobs go to those connected.   

5.For an enterprising individual, the Country is a nightmare with regulations, bureaucracy, and the disposable income of the median Portuguese is nothing to write home about.   There is only so much you can milk the cow out there. 

If she has been worn out by the City life, Brazil still offers plenty.  I would suggest you to pick up some Youtube vids on local vloggers for smaller communities.   Try "Boa Sorte Viajante - Matheus Boa Sorte". He is well spoken, does a decent narrative/script, does not trip on the language as Brazilians often do, and covers a lot of ground, North through South. 

-@Canforbra

01/04/24 @Canforbra.  That's tough.  I hope that nobody is too dug in, and that you two can reach a good compromise.

If she wants to finish her last two years of Veterinary School -- which is a great idea! -- that should give you some time to get used to a routine.  Life will seem less stressful and hectic then, and you'll have some time to explore some places that you'd like to live. 

Does she have the option of doing at least some of her work from home or remotely?  If so, that may relieve some of the stress for these two years.

Don't be put off by droughts in the Northeast.  They almost always just affect the sertão, the interior.  The Zona da Mata, the coastal area where remnants of the Atlantic Forest survive and where the capitals (and the beaches) are, are beautiful and rarely troubled by drought.  The same goes for much of the Agreste, the transitional zone between the Zona da Mata and the Sertão.  All of the capitals around the coast, from Aracaju in the south to Fortaleza in the north are worth checking out, although you  may find Recife and Fortaleza bigger than you want, and in Ceará, the dry zone does come down to the sea.  Salaries in the Northeast, though even professional salaries, tend to be low.

I think of Espírito Santo, the state just east of Rio de Janeiro, as Brazil's treasure hidden in plain sight, in the Southeast with Rio, Minas Gerais, and São Paulo, but usually overlooked, including by Brazilians.  It's accessible but uncrowded, with a great combination of beaches, mountains, and forests, and a cheerful, relaxed atmosphere.  Visit it a few times, and you two might just feel that you've found your home.

@sprealestatebroker

Hi, I have heard that people there are not as welcome as they are driving up the property market prices, similar to canada. Her cousin lives there and I think that is her driving factor. However, he has lived there for about 5 years now.

@abthree

The ideal place we have both wanted to live in, is Alagoas.

She visited it once and loved it. I think she is just feeling run down by work and city life and her personality will change when I get back home.

She loves to call me Bangunca...I personally don't think I am that messy haha

@Canforbra

Hi Bagunça!

What size of property are you thinking of? If you mainly want animals and not large scale agriculture (ie just veggies for your own use, or to sell locally rather than commercially), then I do not think it needs to be huge. Most importantly it must have its own water source, and most small farms I have visited locally have their own wells, so this problem is solved. Anyway, as @Abthree pointed out, drought is only ever a problem once you head well into the interior of Brazil.

Just north of Alagoas is Pernambuco, and you may like to consider the island of Itamaracá, where I have lived for over 16 years. It is a small city, but has a number of small farms dotted throughout the rural side, so you could have the best of both worlds - relatively remote farm, with shops, etc a short drive away and an international airport about an hour from the island, Just search Itamaraca Tourism for more information if you think it might appeal.

I know Portugal very well, and it was a great investment about 10 years ago, but now areas like Lisbon, Porto and the Algarve have become very expensive. There are some possibilities to buy farms in the interior at sensible prices, but be aware the area is very prone to wild fires every summer. One big advantage is that most Portuguese people speak English, unlike Brazilians - here it would help you to learn at least some Portuguese...

Also be aware that the weather in central Portugal has far greater extremes than coastal NE Brazil.

@Canforbra,

What is her area of interest in Vet school... large/small animals, house/farm animals, gov't inspector or private clinic, teaching or just having her own farm?

Seems like the answer to where you go might be found there.

My wife's cousin is a vet that does (among many things) air/water customs inspections out of João Pessoa and maintains his small acreage in the interior. He's quite content. My wife's father was a federal vet focused on interior production (mostly goats but also larger ruminants). He was passionate about it. There are decent schools (if she wants to change schools) in both Pernambuco and Paraiba. My favorite school is in Areia, PB which is located in the interior "brejo," a place not subject to the droughts of the caatinga - Areia is simply picturesque. We almost moved there and still visit rural friends there often.

BUT - I'm not going to try to sell you on the idea of my particular place because each place has its own unique qualities. I know of cases throughout Brazil who swear by their own little piece of paradise just as is the case of Portugal.

Finishing school while accessing the benefits/attributes of diverse destinations seems to be the approach that I'd take.

mberigan

That’s what we are attempting to do  We spent a month in Portugal last year and there seemed to be a distinct anti Brazilian bias  We changed our minds about Portugal 

  01/05/24  @abthreeThe ideal place we have both wanted to live in, is Alagoas.She visited it once and loved it. I think she is just feeling run down by work and city life and her personality will change when I get back home.     -@Canforbra

I absolutely get that:  the place where we would most like to live is Sergipe, the next state south.  The biggest obstacle to moving is that my husband is looking for an appropriate job and salaries in the Northeast are so low.

A veterinarian will have some say on her income, though, wherever she is, so I hope that your wife sticks it out and completes her training, especially since she's so close.  I've known too many Brazilians who have become frustrated with their university studies and dropped them before finishing.  Most of them never went back to complete later in life because other responsibilities start getting in the way, and they lived with their regrets for a long time.

Just for the heck of it, I did consider retirement in Portugal but the residential visa now does not accept real estate investment -> https://getgoldenvisa.com/portugal-golden-visa-program as of Oct 2023.  That was the end of that quest.

Portugal is a way smaller country than Brazil.  As such, I think that there should be much more opportunities for a vet in Brazil.

I have a retired vet friend who now enjoys not only treating lambs but also helps raise them in a cooperative farm.  She enjoys both the office / lab environment and the outdoors and she can do both everyday.

The Portugese economy is terrible, with no jobs, and low wages for those who do work. Secondly, it is in the EU, which is an entity controlled by unelected bureaucratic puppets that work for the WEF. Probably the worst possible place in the world to live now and in the future, except for America and Canada, which are becoming horrible.

SPREB covered it nicely, as did the others. No prospects there at all.

Move to the semi rural NE of Brasil so you have the ocean. Personally I'd be very happy living just outside of Natal.

Good luck.

Ok, sorting things out...

She wants to be a veterinarian..... 

Brazilians and Americans are obsessed with their home pets, specially dogs. Setting up shop in places like Rio, Sao Paulo, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, Brasilia is like a license to print money.  It has gotten expensive to setup shop, but there's always a lower tier market waiting for a vet. 

Portugal, i would have to wait and see. But not many Portuguese have dogs  if they live in an apartment, unlike American and Brazilian counterparts.  A dog in Portugal is on single family households.  And on small plots of land, or "Quintas". Or at least a house with a large yard.

When i made to the US, mid 80's, my brother who wanted to become a vet, went to work for one. It was a coastal MA town. The pair, did visits to treat Elephants, Live stock ( horses and cows ), and had a decent clinic on a STROAD, with a large parking lot and decent footage where they took care of dogs, cats, and birds.

One of the partners went to study in France. The other Arkansas. 

Now, as to where complete her studies, and in Brazil, where higher education is less expensive, and cost of living may vary....

In paragraph, I outlined private institutions when there is one, and the town where the campus resides.

This is a pretty reliable ranking, from Datafolha.

1º         USP-Universidade de São Paulo SP (São Paulo )

2º         UNESP Universidade Estadual Paulista Júlio de Mesquita Filho SP (São Paulo )

3º         UFMG Universidade Federal de Minas Gerais MG  (Belo Horizonte)

4º         UFV Universidade Federal de Viçosa MG     (Viçosa)

5º         UFLA Universidade Federal de Lavras MG  (Lavras)

6º         UFSM Universidade Federal de Santa Maria     RS     (Santa Maria)

7º         UFRRJ   Universidade Federal Rural do Rio de Janeiro    RJ     ( Seropédica)

8º         UFRGS Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul    RS     (Porto Alegre)

9º         UEL Universidade Estadual de Londrina    PR     (Londrina)

10º     UFU     Universidade Federal de Uberlândia    MG     (Uberlândia)

UFG     Universidade Federal de Goiás     GO     (Goiania)

12º     UFF Universidade Federal Fluminense    RJ     (Niterói)

13º     UFPR    Universidade Federal do Paraná     PR     (Curitiba)

14º     UDESC   Fundação Universidade do Estado de Santa Catarina

15º     UFPel Universidade Federal de Pelotas RS (Pelotas)

16º     PUCPR   Pontifícia Universidade Católica do Paraná (private ) (Curitiba)

17º       ANHEMBI   Universidade Anhembi Morumbi (private )  SP (São Paulo )

18º     UNB Universidade de Brasília DF (Brasília)

19º     UECE    Universidade Estadual do Ceará  CE (Fortaleza)

20º     UFRPE   Universidade Federal Rural de Pernambuco PE (Recife)

   01/14/24   Me and my wife had a disagreement today. She wants to move to Portugal now, after all the work and effort I put into immigrating to brazil. She hates her job, which pays well and hates the city. I hate the city as well.I suggested we start a homestead in brazil and if we don't make it in a year or two we can think about Portugal.    -@Canforbra

You can find a lot of good, up-to-date, unbiased info on Portugal on our English-language Portugal Forum:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=354

Our Portugal Expert, JohnnyPT, is knowledgeable and responsive to questions.

If you're a French speaker, our French-language Portugal Forum is also pretty active, with a lot of questions about employment and acquiring property:

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=4384

@Canforbra Portugal is very safe and rated the third safest place in the world, it is also as cheap to live here as it is Brazil with the one exception being property prices however if you live away from Lisbon, Porto or the Algarve property is as cheap as Brazil. Many  Brazilians have moved here, the main reason people move from here to Brazil is down to marriage.

@abthree I can also help if needed I have spent 8 years in Portugal and have written extensively on this, I also have contacts for those seeking visas, it's worth pointing out that it is now one if not the leading destinations for Americans.

@sprealestatebroker Many families in Portugal have dogs, those in apartments tend to have smaller breads which people don't see out on the streets, the Portuguese are also mad about cats and other small animals such as rabbits, there is a lot of work for vets here and it's often hard to get appointments.