Maybe going to stay here.

03/13/24 @Rjones44.  Welcome, and congratulations!  You're right:  the current salário mínimo is R$1,412, so two salários aren't going to go very far for a family of five.  You're probably going to have to pick up some extra work, maybe private students in addition to your work at the school.  You and your wife should also be applying for every social benefit, including any food support, for which the kids qualify.  That will help all of you.

The problem with the cities you mention -- BH, and even more Rio and São Paulo -- is that they're even more expensive than anywhere in Espírito Santo, and the quality of life wouldn't be nearly as good.  Of the three, BH  would probably be the least bad choice.  If, as I imagine, one goal that you and your wife have is to keep the 16 year old in school and headed in a good direction for life, staying in ES would probably be best, moving to BH might work, but risks increase.

It's a challenging situation.  Best of luck.

In the beginning I would focus on making money outside of Brazil and  being paid in dollars. The current exchange rate is 4 to 1 I believe, so it would automatically multiply your earnings and keep you from any issues working officially in Brazil.

For instance, I used to and know others who have worked for Cambly, the English Tutoring On-Line service. The largest group of students are Arab-American, Turkish and Brazilian. You are paid in dollars, but it will multiply because of the exchange rate.  The work is fun and flexible.

Roddie in Retirement

So to put it into perspective, ideally your target would be for a family of 5 (high as possible but I understand landing jobs that pay that much are very hard)

dont get thrown off, now if you opt for public school, that will offset the cost for your kids to a point however to give some insight to costs I have with just one, your looking at about 6-9 salario minimal.

Offsets to that are if you own a house outright or ability to stay with family for no cost.

Support from the family is going to be another one, ) family helping out with the kids.

Suprise medical costs or emergency funds for transportation to hospital,

depending on your region food is going to be expesive too, 3 of us are usually about 500-900 reais a week.

and with 5+ pessoas in a house you will want air conditioning lol so energy if a non gato connection can for that be 200-1000+ a month.

these are just some broad figures and clearly situational and should be taken as a grain of salt.

SP is a human grindhouse like new york or toronto vancouver or california.

Either or, only thing I can genuinly suggest is to plan ahead. like in the years!

l think most of the people on this forum have retired to Brazil and are not working. There are a few exceptions and maybe they will chime in.

The only gringos l have know who made a decent living in Brazil went there with a pre-existing job offer. This usually comes from a company in their home country who also has offices in Brazil. The company l work for has several factories in Brazil, but l have never inquired about employment. No reason to go there and do the same thing for less money. l am close to retirement anyway. The golden rule about Brazil had always been " bring your money with you".

    l think most of the people on this forum have retired to Brazil and are not working. There are a few exceptions and maybe they will chime in.
The only gringos l have know who made a decent living in Brazil went there with a pre-existing job offer. This usually comes from a company in their home country who also has offices in Brazil. The company l work for has several factories in Brazil, but l have never inquired about employment. No reason to go there and do the same thing for less money. l am close to retirement anyway. The golden rule about Brazil had always been " bring your money with you".
   

    -@KenAquarius

Good point about the majority of foreigners are here to retire.

I know a few who work in their own businesses rather than work for a large Brazilian or foreign corporation, but they all in real estate, property and rental management, hotels or pousadas. However they all brought money with them to set up in business here....

@Rjones44

I am here in brazil and I am far from retirement age. I am working on my Portuguese. However, it is far from what it needs to be, to be employed in a decent job. (Having a degree) so, I am currently, looking into side hustling in a legal frame work. Thinking about a food cart to keep expenses down...I like to cook and so on. Teaching can be very rewarding. However, it is also very draining mentally and physically.  I did it when I was younger.

The good news is since your a native speaker of English.  Once you get to learn about how they like to teach in brazil,  you will be able to get a higher salary.  Try not to get into a long term contract at first. Because you can demand more from current or future employers in the future.

Sacrifice will need to be made in the short term. However, remember that brazillian employment laws also stipulate, food vouchers and transportation  and so on. Don't be taken advantage of as well or you can sue them if they don't provide such things on top of your monthly salary.

(My wife works at a law firm here in sp)

Unless you have an inside track or some incredibly specialized skill, Brazilians will almost always hire another Brazilian first. At least that is what l have seen.

    Unless you have an inside track or some incredibly specialized skill, Brazilians will almost always hire another Brazilian first. At least that is what l have seen.
   

    -@KenAquarius

@KenAquarius - good question about specialized skills in Brazil.  I understand (not necessarily agree) that if expat skills are redundant, then locals should get the job.  However, I believe that expats should have better skills and practices that would be useful to improve the local Brazilero situation.

Is there a list of skills that are in demand in Brazil?

03/14/24 @KenAquarius - good question about specialized skills in Brazil.  I understand (not necessarily agree) that if expat skills are redundant, then locals should get the job.  However, I believe that expats should have better skills and practices that would be useful to improve the local Brazilero situation.Is there a list of skills that are in demand in Brazil?        -@Pablo888

Like so much else in Brazil -- it's complicated.

Technically, it's illegal to discriminate between legal residents and citizens in employment -- but it's the general practice.  One reason that there are so few complaints about it is that Brazilian salaries in so many areas are so low that resident foreigners often don't care to compete for the jobs anyway.  Good command of Portuguese is an assumed but often unmentioned requirement for most jobs at any level.

Foreigners with technical skills can make a good living as independent businesspeople, either as a micro-enterprise, as independent contractors,  or in the gray economy, and many do. 

Foreigners with academic credentials, many of whom could make real contributions to Brazilian education, are stymied by the guild-like requirements of validating their degrees through the Brazilian public university systems.  Ironically, the more selective the foreign university and the more specialized the degree, the more difficult it is to validate.  I briefly considered validating my degrees, but quickly decided that I didn't move to Brazil for that level of frustration.  A friend who really wanted to teach doggedly pursued the process as more and more requirements were added.  She finally threw up her hands when the evaluation board presented her with a new demand to have her PhD dissertation translated into Portuguese, at her own expense of course.

The Labor Ministry is formally charged with keeping a list of skills of national interest, but I've lost track of it since the Bolsonaro Adminstration, when he effectively abolished the Labor Ministry.  I know that it's been restored under the current government, but don't know the status of the list.

@abthree Once again you are correct. You know as well as l do about how things are.

Third time trying to post this comment; it keeps vanishing and the site keeps logging me out, so....we'll deal with this  just like a cartorio.   

Just try a different one. Lol

Writing this one in an email to myself; copy, paste.

Anyway, thanks group, for your posts. The conversation, for me, is interesting and I hope it continues.

To state the obvious, I do realize that I am proposing financial suicide. After today's apartment search, both me and my wife are wondering which is worse; the group hug where the whole family is sobbing at the airport once a year, or the horribly imbalanced math when it comes to pay vs. cost of living here.

We looked at several other apartments today, and cannot find anything  less than 1400.00 per month with condominium fees, and that's on the cheap side.

The cheap side puts me 7km away from my job, which necessitates a bus pass for 300.00 more per month.

No AC in any of the units, nor space to hang clothes on the line to dry, and no laundromat within 75 km according to Google maps.

So, at the end of the day, it's Everest base-camp for roughly 2000.00 a month.

I think I'll probably have to try freelance writing. I'm not bad at it, have a small portfolio, and could probably earn my salary equivalent here with 4 or 5 articles a month.

@Rjones44

Hello,

I have sent you a private message. We'll try to find out why you are being logged out..

Regards

Bhavna

@Bhavna Thx for the concern. I have a 40.00 phone I brought from the U.S and our service with Vivo here in ES has been spotty for the last two weeks. I doubt you have website problems.

@Rjones44, from reading the above comments, getting a US job that you can telecommute from Brazil appears to be the way to get the best of both worlds.

The path of the digital nomad is a tried and proven method. 

Another possible way to get a win-win is to work in a business like a customer support center (call desk) that supports North American customers.  I believe that McDonalds is experimenting with outsourced drive-through ordering - this would probably be replaced by AI in the future but for now, a real human being is needed to do the training.

If you are considering a new career that will be in great demand and that you can work from remote, may I suggest psychologist or therapist.  You will need to be licensed but with tele-health, you can practice in the US from pretty much anywhere in the world.

Good luck with your future plans.

    @Rjones44, from reading the above comments, getting a US job that you can telecommute from Brazil appears to be the way to get the best of both worlds.
The path of the digital nomad is a tried and proven method. 

Another possible way to get a win-win is to work in a business like a customer support center (call desk) that supports North American customers.  I believe that McDonalds is experimenting with outsourced drive-through ordering - this would probably be replaced by AI in the future but for now, a real human being is needed to do the training.

If you are considering a new career that will be in great demand and that you can work from remote, may I suggest psychologist or therapist.  You will need to be licensed but with tele-health, you can practice in the US from pretty much anywhere in the world.

Good luck with your future plans.
   

    -@Pablo888

I’ve lived in Brazil and managed software development projects for English speaking clients since 2008.

And I’ve hired designers, developers, translators,  marketers, and writers from around the world.

I’ve used Upwork and Fiverr to find work and to hire workers.

Alan

If you are considering a new career that will be in great demand and that you can work from remote, may I suggest psychologist or therapist.  You will need to be licensed but with tele-health, you can practice in the US from pretty much anywhere in the world.

Check the licensing requirements for US medical professionals. Licensing is done at the state level.

I tried to make an appointment for physical therapy online and was refused because I didn’t live in the state of the physical therapist. 😳

Alan

@Rjones44 l truly wish you the best. You have enough experience to know that life in Brazil is not easy. So many come on this forum and expect easy answers.  Unfortunately that is not the case. As painful as it may seem,  your best bet may be to keep doing what you were doing. Living and working in the USA until such time you can find a better option for you and your family. This is not unlike military personnel who have to be gone for extended times. In the end it’s in the best interest for all. God bless!

Check the licensing requirements for US medical professionals. Licensing is done at the state level.
    -@alan279

True.  My wife is getting the California license and she will be able to take patients in California while staying in Brazil.

As I said - that's the best of both worlds - earning in USA and spending in Brazil....

@Pablo888 I found a physical therapist in Ireland from Croatia on Upwork. 🤪

Alan

    @Pablo888 I found a physical therapist in Ireland from Croatia on Upwork. 🤪
Alan
   

    -@alan279

Cool.  Working from remote actually works.... Good to know.

Ya I've only worked remote for the past 17 years I think now. Anything that can be done outside of signing documents of a legal standard in person can be done remotely unless it's hardware related.

@Mikeflanagan

electronic signatures now exist in Brazil as well

Ya in Brazil. But even in Canada it's held to a degree of scepticism lol which is a bit of a nuance

I sent you a private message with some contact information for real estate guy in Linhares. He is a friend of my wife’s. Hopefully he has some ideas about housing.

Good luck!

@KenAquarius Unfortunately I believe you are right. Having worked at a restaurant here in Guriri for a couple of years, I do realize that the quality of life an expat is going to pass through in Brazil is directly linked to American dollars and the favorable conversion rate. That is one of the reasons that, up to this point, we have chosen not to immigrate north to Alaska.

There is a song Jimmy Buffet wrote years ago called "The Weather is Here, I Wish You Were Beautiful."

I have thought of that song several times wrestling with the job opportunities available in my location.

However, like most members of this group, there are a lot of other things that I love about being here. Going back to the States, I feel like a foreigner. There are so many nuances you get used to here that you don't realize how awesome it is until you leave. We actually found a situation in Linhares through a friend of a friend (isn't that how it always ends up?) for 850.00 a month. The pay cut would sting, but that airport would go away. We've got 24 hours to decide.

Either way, it's good to be in contact with a few folks from back home.

Thank all of you for your comments!

@alan279 Upwork seems to be a repeating theme on a lot of these threads. It would be a lot easier to write a few articles a month than to try to work 4 hours a day at another school (the diretor da escola offered to refer me to a private school for part time work).

I've read a few reviews for Upwork online; it seems the first few assignments are the hardest ones, as you need to build confidence in your work history on the site.

@Rjones44 It is relatively easy to register on Upwork and Fiverr. ChatGPT will write your profile descriptions of the services you offer.

Alan

   03/19/24 @alan279 Upwork seems to be a repeating theme on a lot of these threads. It would be a lot easier to write a few articles a month than to try to work 4 hours a day at another school (the diretor da escola offered to refer me to a private school for part time work).
I've read a few reviews for Upwork online; it seems the first few assignments are the hardest ones, as you need to build confidence in your work history on the site.
   

    -@Rjones44

That sounds like a good plan.  Just be careful to maintain the relationships with people who offer you part-time jobs now, for something to fall back on.  A lot of folks in the "New Middle Class" in Brazil, including several of my in-laws, get by stringing together some "bicos", part-time jobs that come together to make a living.

If you're good with tools, and especially if you have tools of your own with you, you can also pick up some extra part-time as an "artífice", a handyman.  Condominiums, especially those with professional management, are often looking for a part-time artífice for odd jobs that can pay well.  Try never to lend anyone your tools.