Has anyone gone through the simplified naturalization precedure?

blonder wrote:

The fun begins when you have to get res card, TAJ card, tax number etc.  that was more difficult than simp nat.  Glad I'm done everything.  Now If Budapest overpriced apt would drop in value so I can buy:)

Blonder, this touches on something, I've looked into but don't fully understand. What are our obligations if we receive HU citizenship? I'm currently under the impression that one doesn't need to pay HU taxes if not actually living in the country.

Personal income tax for Hungarian citizens
Personal income tax in Hungary is flat - 15 percent.

Deloitte - Hungary Tax Highlights 2017.

Check on page 3, Personal Taxation

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/D … s-2017.pdf

Also
Deloitte Taxation and Investment in Hungary 2017

Check on page 24 - 6. Taxes on Individuals

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/D … e-2017.pdf

6.1 Residence

Individuals with Hungarian citizenship (excluding dual citizens with no permanent residence in Hungary) and foreigners with a Hungarian settlement permit are considered tax residents.

So if you are dual citizen (American and Hungarian, and you don’t live in Hungary for 183 days or more, you don’t pay taxes on your worldwide income to Hungary. Of course you have to report and pay taxes on your worldwide income to IRS as American citizen).

Hope this will help you.

According to Wikipedia, Gorlice was in the Austrian part of Austria-Hungary.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorlice

“As a result of the first Partition of Poland (Treaty of St-Petersburg dated 5 July 1772), the town area was attributed to the Habsburg Empire. (for more details, read the article Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria). In 1806, the Austrian government sold the town to a local nobleman, Jan Nepomucen Stadnicki of Roznow.

Until 1918, the town remained part of the Austria side (Cisleithania) after the compromise of 1867, head (since 1865) of the county with the same name, one of the 78 Bezirkshauptmannschaften in Austrian Galicia province (Crown land).”

SSSnoopz wrote:

Everything I've read on the consulate's website seems to point to me being eligible for regular citizenship by decent, which I sure hope I am since I can't speak a word of Hungarian and neither can my father nor anyone alive in my family. My grandfather was born in Hungary (yes modern day Hungary) and emigrated to the US well after 1920. Based on everything I've read, all I need to prove my citizenship is a copy of my grandfather's birth certificate, marriage certificate, and any document proving his residence in Hungary after 1920.

This all seems too good to be true, is there any catch to this that might force me to go through the simp nat process?

A bit late, sorry. I read all your posts and just want to clarify a few things that people may not have addressed because my situation sounded a bit similar to yours.

You should avoid simplified naturalization if you can because you don't know Hungarian and in my opinion citizenship through ancestry/descent is easier. However, I need to point out your father should/would also be applying with you if it is through descent ie: if you are eligible, your father is also and it can't skip him and go to you. I mean, simplified naturalization is doable with some Hungarian lessons, but I've heard from several people and in this thread as well, that you're kind of at the mercy of the person interviewing you.

You said your grandfather was born in present day Hungary, so your next step would be to request a copy of his birth certificate from a Hungarian Consulate (or if you have it, great). Attempt to verify he never lost his citizenship for any reason and try to see if you can get ahold of your grandfather's marriage certificate as well. Then you'll have to gather documents on your mother and father, their marriage certificate for sure assuming there is one, and their birth certificates (even if your mother isn't applying!).

Would it be best if I did this back home in the USA or elsewhere? I am currently living in Europe so even going to Budapest and doing everything there wouldn't be a challenge.

It's hard to say. I would honestly contact your region's Hungarian Consulate in the US and ask their opinion. For me personally doing it, at probably the busiest Hungarian Consulate in the US, took 18 months for my paperwork and passport to arrive.

Whichever route you take, it isn't going to hurt to have anything and everything handy that may include birth certificates and marriage certificates especially. The latter are often overlooked by people submitting documents.

Thanks for the info! I'm currently in the process of tracking down all the birth and marriage certificates. I've also been told I need some document proving that he resided in Hungary after 1929, when apparently the laws were changed to not strip emigrants of their citizenship. A record of school attendance would probably be best. The only detail I'm nervous about is the fact that my grandfather served in the U.S. Army during WWII and may have been forced to renounce his Hungarian citizenship prior to my father's birth.

Hello,

Wanted to pop in and say thanks to all who had given me advice on this thread, and that I recently attended a citizenship ceremony in London and am now a proud Hungarian! I will soon be applying for my passport, and I'm terribly excited. Please feel free to DM me with any questions.

Congratulations on becoming Hungarian and wish you all the best. I wanted to ask you how long did the whole process take. Thank you

Two years from interview to being invited to an oath ceremony 

Wooow it’s a long process but it’s worth it so congratulations again.

I suspect a lot depends on the diligence of the particular consul who takes your application. There must be a few who have other duties, and put SN applications on the back burner. As I've mentioned before, applying in Hungary and short-circuiting the Foreign Ministry will probably speed the process.

Still, two years is about twice as long as I'd expected in a worst-case scenario.

Wow. Two years seems long. If you are getting the verification, as I apparently am, then would it be easier to do it in Hungary? I will be there in June. The individual at the Chicago consulate has not yet responded. I guess they do have a lot of duties.

Applying in Hungary might be quicker in terms of getting approval, but I can't imagine it would be easier. By all accounts, Hungarian diplomats speak English well and are civil and patient with those seeking citizenship. Dealing with them is not a bad experience.

Apply in Hungary, though, and you might encounter a more typical stern bureaucrat with limited English skills. That is, you won't be dealing with a trained diplomat.

(This is less an issue for those taking the SN route, since they'll have some Hungarian language skills.)

casualimmigrant wrote:

Two years from interview to being invited to an oath ceremony 

The cogs of Hungarian bureaucracy turn slowly. Despite laws stating how quickly those in the civil service are suppose to reply,

One's millage may differ, but what is on the books, and what really happens, often are not parallelly aligned. That is Hungary in a nutshell. 

I know a guy that passed the interview in March and got his naturalization certificate in November.

Hello,

I'm American from Alaska. My father is Hungarian and was born in Hungary. The process is fairly straightforward, if you speak Hungarian. My father taught me from age 4 onwards. It's an incredibly difficult and strange language.

If you don't speak Hungarian, forget it. They will deny quickly. I applied December 2017 here at the government office in Budapest, so I'm still waiting for a decision. The process takes 6-12 months to verify the many required documents.

There are some language schools in Budapest that teach Hungarian but they are expensive, fyi.

Hope this helps.

Sok sikert!

AlaskaNomad,

That surprises me. My father and I are applying at the US consulate and we have been repeatedly told that there no language requirement for our case. My grandfather (my father’s father) was born in Hungary. I wonder what specifics of your case are making you have to go the simplified naturalization route.

As Zif mentioned before, Simplified Naturalization procedure is usually much faster because you have to prove only that you have ancestor who was born before 26.07.1921. in former Hungary.
The only “problem” is that you have to speak Hungarian.
In verification procedure they have to verify ALL necessary documents and this is usually very slow process, but if approved you don’t need to speak Hungarian at all.
It is up to you which procedure is better and more convenient for you.
The only difference (except duration) is that through Simplified Naturalization procedure you become Hungarian citizen from the day you take the Oath, and through Verification procedure you become Hungarian citizen from the day of your birth.

AlaskaNomad wrote:

If you don't speak Hungarian, forget it. They will deny quickly.

This is potentially inaccurate. Depends on when one was born and when their parents or grandparents were born.

By Hungarian law as it has been in effect for many decades, children of Hungarian citizens are Hungarian at birth, no matter where they are born. There is no language test for this. But there has been some variation of the citizenship law over time. So time when you were born or when your father left Hungary may matter.

But generically, there is a difference between simplified naturalization, which is mostly for those born as descendants of those born in "big" Hungary before the Treaty of Trianon, and citizen rights of those born of Hungarian citizens after Trianon. it is important not to confuse the two.

klsallee wrote:

So time when you were born or when your father left Hungary may matter.

This. Based on what I was told by the embassy a few weeks ago, if your Hungarian ancestor was born in modern-day Hungary andemigrated after 1930 then there is no language requirement. Which is why I’m surprised to hear that Alaska had to prove his knowledge of the language. Although there may be other stipulations in the law that I was not made aware of as they do not apply to me. For example, I think there was a time where citizenship was only passed through one’s father. Which isn’t an issue for me, but it might be for someone with a Hungarian mother or grandmother.

If you are missing some necessary documents for verification or for any reason they can’t verify your documents, you can always go through Simplified Naturalization procedure if you have an ancestor who was born in pre Trianon Hungary before 26.07.1921.
Instead of your parents or grandparents look for birth records of your grand-grand parents and just prove that they were born in Hungary before 26.07.1921.
Present Hungary was of course part of pre-Trianon
Hungary, so Simplified Naturalization applies to all born there before 26.07.1921.
Only “problem” is language requirement.

That is correct.

According to Embassy of Hungary in Washington D.C. USA
Before October 01st 1957:

-A child became a Hungarian citizen only if his legitimate father was a Hungarian citizen. The child of a Hungarian mother and a non-Hungarian father didn’t become Hungarian citizen by birth.

- If the child was born out of wedlock (extramarital birth) and the mother had Hungarian citizenship, the child became Hungarian citizen. But if later on the child was recognized by a non-Hungarian father, he/she could have lost her/his citizenship.

-The non-Hungarian wife of a Hungarian citizen husband became automatically Hungarian citizen after the marriage.

- If a Hungarian citizen wife acquired by marriage the citizenship of her non-Hungarian husband, then she automatically lost her Hungarian citizenship.

http://washington.kormany.hu/hungarian- … ip-general

The Embassy of Hungary, Washington D.C. USA

Hungarian Citizenship Law Before October 01st 1957. (Continued):

- Those, who left Hungary before September 1st, 1929 could loose their citizenship by living continuously abroad for a period exceeding 10 years. This 10 year period began after the expiry date in the person's last Hungarian passport. Therefore, in this case, a Hungarian official document (e.g. a passport, a written declaration made in a Hungarian Consulate, etc.) must be produced which would prove that the person kept his/her citizenship.
- Effects of the Trianon treaty: in general those living outside of the present Hungarian borders lost their Hungarian citizenship and became citizens of the country which received the given territory (with some minor exceptions) after 1921.
- From those who left Hungary before February 1st, 1949, a Hungarian document (any Hungarian identity document, school certificate, work certificate, diploma, etc.) proving that they lived in Hungary after September 1st, 1929 - especially for those who left in the 1930s, early 1940s - is required.
- In some cases, the Acts of 1879 and 1939 entitled the Hungarian State to deprive Hungarians from their citizenship.

The assessment of the citizenship of a person might be a very complicated task, due to the historical changes of borders and citizenships in Central Europe during the 20th century. It is exclusively done by experts of the Nationality Verification Division of the Office of Immigration and Nationality in Budapest.

http://washington.kormany.hu/hungarian- … ip-general

Hello all,

It is important to note I applied here in Hungary. I did not apply at an Embassy or Consulate in the US or anywhere. It appears the requirements are more strict within Hungary, hence the requirement to speak entirely in Hungarian at the Kormany Hivatal ("Government Office", where citizenship applications are submitted). Only one of the representatives spoke English, and she was firm that the appointment would not proceed in English but only Hungarian, as it is a citizenship matter.

Hope this helps clarify.

To ask for a foreign nation's citizenship without knowing the national language is quite offensive. In the US, one must be fluent in the English language to apply. In Canada, one must be fluent in English and/or French to apply for citizenship. If you were a foreigner applying for American citizenship, but you couldn't speak English, do you honestly believe your application and interview would be approved?

Just because your ascendent was born in Hungary, simply isn't enough. Best of luck trying to apply for Hungarian citizenship, especially not knowing the language, and thus the culture, of Hungary.

You are never entitled to a foreign nation's citizenship but only to request it. That request can be denied. Applying with a sense of entitlement is not favorable within Hungary.

Not completely true because it depends by procedure (verification or naturalization).

Through Verification procedure you are ENTITLED to citizenship by law and ASKING Hungarian Officials to VERIFY that you are already Hungarian citizen at the moment of your birth through your Hungarian parents.
No language requirement or Oath at all.

Through Naturalization (both Regular and Simplified) you REQUEST Hungarian Citizenship because you satisfied all conditions defined by law and of course you have to speak language and take Oath.

Hungary citizenship law is based on ius sanguinis (Citizenship is based by blood/parents regardless place of birth) and citizenship of USA and Canada is based on both ius sanguinis and ius soli (place of birth).
You are ENTITLED by law to automatically become citizen through your parents (ius sanguinis) or by the place of your birth (ius soli) or both. It depends by each countries’ law. So there is no any request for citizenship, language requirements or Oath.

In Verification procedure they verify that ancestors were Hungarian citizens at the moment of birth of their children (ius sanguinis).
If verification is approved you are entitled/considered Hungarian citizen from the moment of your birth because your parents were Hungarian citizens and there is NO language requirement and Oath at all.
So if you don’t speak Hungarian you have right by law to use Hungarian Translator to help you to go through verification procedure without any consequences.

On the contrary through (Simplified or Regular) Naturalization procedure You REQUEST citizenship, and in any country in the world, you have to take Oath and to speak national language (hungarian for Hungary, english for USA and Canada).

But if you become citizen through your (Hungarian, American, Canadian) parents or if you are born in USA or Canada regardless citizenship of your parents, you become citizen at the moment of your birth and you don’t need to speak (national) language and to take Oath at all.
Because of that USA and Canada are very popular for “birth tourism”.

AlaskaNomad wrote:

To ask for a foreign nation's citizenship without knowing the national language is quite offensive.

If a Hungarian couple is living living abroad and has a child that child is Hungarian at birth by Hungarian law. If that child learns Hungarian or not after that is irrelevant. That child is still a Hungarian citizen.

It is the same with American citizen couples living abroad. Their children are automatically American citizens. Registering the birth at the US consulate or embassy then gives proof making it easier for the child later in life regarding their citizenship. And since there is no national Constitutional USA language, what languages that child may or may not learn as they grow up is also irrelevant.

AlaskaNomad wrote:

It appears the requirements are more strict within Hungary

Nonsense. Hungarian citizenship law does not change at the Hungarian boarder.

But you might run into more Hungarian nationalists in offices in Hungary who might try to claim it does.

AlaskaNomad wrote:

Only one of the representatives spoke English, and she was firm that the appointment would not proceed in English but only Hungarian, as it is a citizenship matter.

If you live in Hungary you will find that if you go to three different people in an office you may get three different answers. And some can try to bully you, even when they are wrong.

But beyond that, the process may need to be conducted in Hungarian (but I wonder if that is true), but that does not mean you have to speak it if your parents were Hungarian because you are a Hungarian citizens regardless of your language skills. You can hire a translator if you do not speak fluent Hungarian but otherwise have rights of citizenship under the law. If you doubt that, just hire an attorney to tell the office clerk that.

I have had more than once to correct office clerks on fine points of Hungarian law, and I am not even Hungarian.

AlaskaNomad wrote:

....You are never entitled to a foreign nation's citizenship but only to request it. That request can be denied. Applying with a sense of entitlement is not favorable within Hungary.

Just to chuck in 2cents. 

Two of my kids are Hungarian citizens and they are also British.  I'm British, so they are too even though they were born in Hungary.   Sure they can speak Hungarian but it's irrelevant.  Mrs Fluffy is Hungarian and that's all that's required to be Hungarian.   Both kids have two passports.

And just to be more interesting,  one of my other kids was born in The Netherlands.  I'm not Dutch and neither is the mother and therefore my kid is not Dutch but British, despite being born there.

One of my contacts is British and Australian and married to an Emirati.   Their kids are British, Australian and Emirati.  And they have three passports.

Hi I was hoping someone who had gone through the process or familiar with it could make sure I have got this right.

Once I have all the documents together, then what? Call my consulate and ask for an appointment? Do I turn in all my forms and take the interview at the same time? Do I have to schedule the appointment speaking Hungarian on the phone? Provided they accept my application, then I have to make another appointment to take the oath? How does that work?

These are the documents I need to bring to the appointment correct:

• Birth certificate/proof of citizenship of Hungarian Ancestor in Hungarian
• Birth certificates of father and grandfather showing my connection to ancestor translated to Hungarian
• My birth certificate/proof of martial status translated to Hungarian
• Completion of the Honosítás születés form
• Completion of Visszahonosítás form
• Proof of no Criminal Record? How do I show this?

My great-grandfather is my ancestor, if I can find his birth details and his marriage certificate from the USA. Does anyone know, do I also need my great-grandmother's birth certificate/proof of birth? Details on her are harder for me to find, she was also born in Austria-Hungary.

Many thanks for the help!
Charles

For anybody who applied for the passport after receiving simplified naturalisation—how long did it take you? I applied from London and they’ve said it’s 3-8 weeks which is quite a wide range!

casualimmigrant wrote:

For anybody who applied for the passport after receiving simplified naturalisation—how long did it take you? I applied from London and they’ve said it’s 3-8 weeks which is quite a wide range!

It can take that length of time for people renewing their passports living overseas. So don't worry. It depends on how busy they are.

First you have to call Hungarian Embassy/Consulate in the country where you are living and in Hungarian language to schedule an appointment.

If you don’t speak Hungarian language well during that phone call, usually they will recommend you to learn Hungarian better and then call them back again to schedule an appointment.

At the date of your appointment you will bring all documents (translated to Hungarian language) that you mentioned, and during the Interview they will test your knowledge of Hungarian language.

If they are satisfied with it, they will recommend (in the notice that they will write on your application) that you are ready to take an Oath.

They will send all your documents to Budapest for final check and approval, and after 6-9 months when they receive a positive answer from Budapest they will schedule the Oath for you.
On the day you take the Oath you become a Hungarian citizen.

You need an ancestor who was born before 26.07.1921. in Hungarian part of Austria-Hungary empire.
Doesn’t matter, your ancestor can be your great-grandfather or great-grandmother from your father or mother side.
For example you need your great-grandfather or great-grandmother birth certificate, not both,
- than his/her marriage certificate,
- than his son/daughter (your grandfather or grandmother) birth certificate, 
- than your grandfather (or grandmother) marriage certificate,
-  than his/her son/daughter (your parents - father or mother) birth certificate,
-than your parents marriage certificate,
- and finally your birth certificate (if you are married and have children, you need also your marriage certificate and your children’s birth certificates.

All these documents have to be translated to Hungarian language.
If you can not find your ancestor’s birth certificate you can submit death certificate if it shows place and date of birth.

Besides Hungarian Embassies/Consulates, in USA and Canada, couple times per year they are organizing Consular Days in different cities in USA and Canada.
You can schedule an appointment and bring documents and have Interview in Consular Days too.
For Consular Days schedule please check Embassy of Hungary in USA and Canada websites.

heretime figuring out exactly how it works from the website.

So I don't need to prove the clean criminal record then?

What about those forms, from what I can tell I needed to fill out at least this one? Do I need any other forms listed here on the allampolgarsag.gov.hu website?

And noted about the birth certificates, hopefully I will be able to find one. I am starting that search now.

Thanks again!

You need to report if you have any criminal record.
If not, you don’t need to do anything.
When Budapest receive all your documents later, they will check all these things about you anyway.

If you have you can submit for your ancestors their previous Hungarian passports or previous Hungarian IDs too.

You need to download and fulfill in Hungarian language these documents:

- HONOSÍTÁSI - VISSZAHONOSÍTÁSI KÉRELEM
(Request for your Hungarian citizenship, and if you have children you have to fulfill it for them too.) Download it at
http://allampolgarsag.gov.hu/images/hon … erelem.pdf

- ADATLAP1
(Request for your Hungarian birth certificate)
Download it at
http://allampolgarsag.gov.hu/images/hazaihonszul.pdf

- ADATLAP2
(If you are married - request for your Hungarian marriage certificate)
Download it at
http://allampolgarsag.gov.hu/images/hk_honositott.pdf

- WRITE in Hungarian Language (do NOT type it) in one page basic information about you (short personal and professional biography) and sign it.

Hungarian Citizenship certificate and Lakcim Card (something like Hungarian Social Security and Tax Number) you will get at the Oath ceremony after you take the Oath and become Hungarian citizen.

After you become Hungarian citizen, about 1-2 years later you will receive to your home address by mail your Hungarian birth certificate and marriage certificate (if you are married).

Different consulates/embassies may follow different procedures, but you might find it less stressful to make your initial contact, in Hungarian, by email rather than over the phone.

Ideally, the consul will be willing to look at copies of your documents to see that everything is in order before you set up the formal interview. Note that some consuls will translate documents into Hungarian, some won't, so you'll have to clarify this beforehand as well.

By Law, since 1896 in Austria-Hungarian empire all Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates were recorded and kept by local Municipal administration.

Before 1896, local Churches (where your ancestors were baptized) were recorded and kept all Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates.

And the pre-1896 church records were required to be kept by law and had -- and still have -- the status of official birth, marriage and death records.

(Note that Croatia-Slavonia was an exception to the 1896 switchover; the government there didn't take over these functions until 1900.)

Right okay – well it will be interesting to see if I can find it. I really appreciate the help. I have the names of his parents and exact date of birth and I think of the town. Its part of modern day Ukraine, a city called mukachevo formally munkacz of Hungary. An independent ukrainian document retrieval company wrote me today and told me they don't help with anything pre-1942. Neither of them returned to Europe, so they have American death certificates, I also have a sworn statement from him his place and date of birth in the form of a World War 1 draft card. I am not sure they would get me very far with the consulate though, perhaps will require hiring someone independently, I don't know how much luck I will have not speaking Ukrainian. I will be in Hungary this summer, perhaps worth a drive across the border. Thanks again for the help.

csheppa wrote:

heretime figuring out exactly how it works from the website.

So I don't need to prove the clean criminal record then?

What about those forms, from what I can tell I needed to fill out at least this one? Do I need any other forms listed here on the allampolgarsag.gov.hu website?

And noted about the birth certificates, hopefully I will be able to find one. I am starting that search now.

Thanks again!

There's no way you can prove a clean criminal background.

They'll do background checks I assume rather than "take your word" for it.

It's something I definitely would not try to hide.