U.S. Veterans...Roll-Call.

You obviously know a little about Darwinism.  But, very little about organization.  In the animal kingdom, every herd (pride or pack) has its leader (most often the alpha male).  In human terms, that would be the President or Number One.  Then, just like in human warfare, if the leader is too old or stupid, the pack would rise up and dispose him. 

Just read up a little on organizational structures, conflict management...  Better yet, take a couple of courses in political science, they will help solve a lot.

Wild_1 wrote:

You obviously know a little about Darwinism.  But, very little about organization.  In the animal kingdom, every herd (pride or pack) has its leader (most often the alpha male).  In human terms, that would be the President or Number One.  Then, just like in human warfare, if the leader is too old or stupid, the pack would rise up and dispose him. 

Just read up a little on organizational structures, conflict management...  Better yet, take a couple of courses in political science, they will help solve a lot.

Maybe you should take a course in lightening up. I was trying to make light of the conversation and you got your undies in a bunch. Are you always this cheerful or am I just the luck one that you get to vent on today?

As an FYI I have owned and managed successful companies so I know a little bit about structures and processes, but I also don't take myself so seriously that I can't laugh at myself. I am also professionally trained in Environmental Sciences so I know a little bit about biology and animal sociology, plus I've been in engineering most of my adult life so I can speak with some basic level of understanding about problem solving.

I'm not here trying to impress with mental gymnastics or to show how clever I can be, I am here to learn and understand. So what are you trying to get me to understand?

Good_Man wrote:

I was trying to make light of the conversation

Sorry, I forgot to tickle myself.

I'm not here trying to impress

So, what was the biography for?

Btw, I didn't want to teach you jack.  That was why I recommended you to take those courses, where the professionals will teach you.  Get it?

Wild_1 wrote:

Good_Man wrote:

I was trying to make light of the conversation

Sorry, I forgot to tickle myself.

I'm not here trying to impress

So, what was the biography for?

Btw, I didn't want to teach you jack.  That was why I recommended you to take those courses, where the professionals will teach you.  Get it?

BTW the name isn't Jack. But you did teach me something I now know to ignore your posts from now on

Saxengee wrote:

once you become a soldier you no longer belong to yourself

That is very true.  However, I don't think one should discount the men's sense of duty to their countries and pride in, at the very least, their units.  After all, the objective of the date that THD was trying to celebrate is to commemorate such selfless spirits.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, though.  I personally did my shares in 1 war and 2 armed skirmishes.  Yet, I have never participated in any celebration, on my own. 

I believe that there are much better ways to resolve human conflicts and far better use of such courageous energies.  Unfortunately, as history has shown us and at the rate that we are going, war is just inevitable.

Good_Man,  I will let you know when I loose any sleep.

The planet and 99% of its inhabitants have never said YES, to any war.  Yet, we proceeded and are becoming ever more lethal in our destructive capabilities.

One reason I singled out Americans is because many American Vietnam Veterans that I have met have an inherent patriotism & sense of entitlement. Most still carry on as if they were right. It's probably not their fault. Even the current younger American generation has been taught in school that the Vietnam war was at best a 'mistake' or more so that the war could have been won had it not been for the general dissent & antiwar sentiment back in the states. Protesters spitting on soldiers etc.
But lets be honest- the REAL reason I mentioned US soldiers, is because it's now a well known fact that since the end of WW2 - American 'soldiers' have reeked more havoc & war on the world then any other nation. Usually for profit- Hidden under the convenient banner of 'freedom'

Saxongee,

Good point on the fact that some veterans feel overly entitled. Often such veterans are among those who should least feel entitled, but that's human nature. November 11th was originally meant to reflect on the cost of the recent "Great War" and honor those who paid the price in the hope that there would never be another. Certainly a good reason to mark November 11th.

As to what Americans are taught about the Vietnam War, the real answer is not much, and certainly not all the same. You have to remember that each school district decides which textbooks will be used and how much time is allotted. How each class is slanted often depends upon a teacher's view.

Viewing the Vietnam war as a mistake is the least objectionable way to approach the subject. It was fought as a limited war precisely because those who decided to get involved were aware of the constitutional issues, which have never been resolved. Were I teaching a High School history class, I would definitely examine those issues, rather than any supposedly moral ones, arguments over which can really tie up class time. One student brings up My Lai, another challenges with Hue, ad nauseam. Those issues are best left for Uni post graduate study.

As for your 'well known facts', those are opinion. And they're not yours alone. Many agree, many disagree, but most would salute your right to express them. As for me, I keep waiting for that cheaper oil we were supposed to be getting out of Iraq (an even bigger mistake I initially agreed with).

As for the suck balls comment, you are indeed a gentleman. This being a Vietnam forum, I first thought of the Bo do vien that comes in some Pho (Hey, I'm getting old) but after a few seconds it dawned on me.

Anyway, enjoy your weekend.

So I sent an email to the Consulate General asking if they have any activities planned for Veteran's Day.

Dear Consulate General of The United States:

I am an American Citizen living in Vietnam and I am writing to inquire if the Consulate General has any plans/events/programs aimed at honoring US Veterans during this upcoming Veterans Day (November 11, 2013). 

Thank you.

And I just got back a reply.

We acknowledge the receipt of your email at acshcmc@state.gov.

This is the mail-box of the American Citizen Services unit. We provide
certain services for U.S. citizens travelling to Vietnam, but not visa
applications. If you are asking about a U.S. visa you must submit your
question via the inquiry form on the Consulate's website.
For immigrant-visa question please use this link:
https://hochiminhcity2.cms.getusinfo.co … ries.html.
For non-immigrant visa inquiries, please use this link:
https://hochiminhcity2.cms.getusinfo.co … iries.html
Please do not reply to this one-time administrative e-mail. All
visa-related inquiries must be submitted via the above links for a
specific response, otherwise your questions will go unanswered.

If your e-mail concerns services for American citizens in Vietnam please
follow the corresponding link to obtain general information:
After-hour an emergency such as arrest, death, illness, missing person
please call our hotline at: (04) 3850-5000/3850-5105 within Vietnam,
or 011-84-4-3850-5000 from the U.S.
Office hours: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/office_hours3.html
Death of an American Citizen:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/death_ … tizen.html
Passport application: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/passports.html
Consular Report of Birth Abroad:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/report … broad.html
Notary: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/notarials.html
Registration while you are in Vietnam:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/registration.html
Specific information about Vietnam:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t … _1060.html
Marriage Requirements:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/marria … etnam.html
Medical assistance or legal advice:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/medica … dvice.html
Visa to Vietnam: http://vietnamembassy-usa.org/services
For other assistance regarding services for American citizens but not
visa matters please send us an e-mail to:
acshcmc@state.gov

Thank you,

American Citizen Services Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General
4 Le Duan, District 1
Ho Chi Minh City
Phone: (84-8) 3520-4200
Fax: (84-8) 3520-4231

I realize it's a machine that replied because it didn't answer my inquiry.  However, it still has some pretty useful links for FAQs I can share with you.

Tran Hung Dao wrote:

So I sent an email to the Consulate General asking if they have any activities planned for Veteran's Day.

---

Dear Consulate General of The United States:

I am an American Citizen living in Vietnam and I am writing to inquire if the Consulate General has any plans/events/programs aimed at honoring US Veterans during this upcoming Veterans Day (November 11, 2013). 

Thank you.

---

And I just got back a reply.

---

We acknowledge the receipt of your email at acshcmc@state.gov.

This is the mail-box of the American Citizen Services unit. We provide
certain services for U.S. citizens travelling to Vietnam, but not visa
applications. If you are asking about a U.S. visa you must submit your
question via the inquiry form on the Consulate's website.
For immigrant-visa question please use this link:
https://hochiminhcity2.cms.getusinfo.co … ries.html.
For non-immigrant visa inquiries, please use this link:
https://hochiminhcity2.cms.getusinfo.co … iries.html
Please do not reply to this one-time administrative e-mail. All
visa-related inquiries must be submitted via the above links for a
specific response, otherwise your questions will go unanswered.

If your e-mail concerns services for American citizens in Vietnam please
follow the corresponding link to obtain general information:
After-hour an emergency such as arrest, death, illness, missing person
please call our hotline at: (04) 3850-5000/3850-5105 within Vietnam,
or 011-84-4-3850-5000 from the U.S.
Office hours: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/office_hours3.html
Death of an American Citizen:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/death_ … tizen.html
Passport application: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/passports.html
Consular Report of Birth Abroad:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/report … broad.html
Notary: http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/notarials.html
Registration while you are in Vietnam:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/registration.html
Specific information about Vietnam:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t … _1060.html
Marriage Requirements:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/marria … etnam.html
Medical assistance or legal advice:
http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/medica … dvice.html
Visa to Vietnam: http://vietnamembassy-usa.org/services
For other assistance regarding services for American citizens but not
visa matters please send us an e-mail to:
acshcmc@state.gov

Thank you,

American Citizen Services Unit
Consular Section
U.S. Consulate General
4 Le Duan, District 1
Ho Chi Minh City
Phone: (84-8) 3520-4200
Fax: (84-8) 3520-4231

---

I realize it's a machine that replied because it didn't answer my inquiry.  However, it still has some pretty useful links for FAQs I can share with you.

Ha.

Saxengee wrote:

' Unfortunately, as history has shown us and at the rate that we are going, war is just inevitable.'
I disagree 100% , with all of my heart. You are wrong.
If history has shown us anything- It is that the planet can no longer sustain our trivial & greedy wars. If anything is inevitable? it is our need for survival- as a species- War is no longer an option. I wish the current people in power would try to understand this fact. The planet is saying NO.

Saxengee - unfortunately those in 'power'(ie the assholes in government)of most countries are only too happy sending their YOUNG men and women off to get killed or mutilated in war anywhere/anytime.
That's been proven from very early human history right though to today.
The only thing that has changed is the proficiency and efficiency of the weapons used to do the killing.
It's the richer, more wealthy, more higher up socially 'elite' who are more than happy to send the sons and daughters of less fortunate off to fight their wars in other countries of course. (IMHO)
Unfortunately, it's also the less educated, dare I say, less intelligent 'soldiers' who are usually the ones who start and participate in the barbarous things like 'My Lai' !
The worst of all these days are the religious nutters who brain wash their own people into believing that killing themselves in the name of their religion is a guaranteed way to get into 'Paradise'. Lots of luck trying to deal with that lot.
It seems written into the basic DNA of mankind to make war on each other.

Flip, I totally agree with your conclusion, however, reference this part, which you did qualify as an opinion, is not always the case.

It's the richer, more wealthy, more higher up socially 'elite' who are more than happy to send the sons and daughters of less fortunate off to fight their wars in other countries of course. (IMHO)

The social elites of all warring nations went off to war from 1914-1918. And again in 1939-45. It all depends, I guess (less than a IMHO), of what they perceive the issues are. In France, for instance, a 58 year old Count enlisted in the same Cavalry REgiment his son was serving in, and by war's end was in charge of the stables. His son became General Leclerc. And Captain De Lattre de Tassigny, also a future general, decided that the cavalry was not sharing the real burdens of the war and traded his horse in for command of an infantry company in the line. Sometimes, the issues are important. Peace for most human beings is not merely the absence of conflict, its an absence of conflict under their conditions. I.e., everyone accepts the peace  under imposed religious dogmas or political dogmas, etc. Certainly the Cambodians gravely underestimated what a Khmers Rouges victory would bring.

On 9 October, 2013 Tran Hung Dao wrote:

So...any Expats here who is a United States Veteran, please stand up and be counted.  If there are a handful of vets, I want to organize something (maybe in Đà Nẵng) to celebrate Veteran's Day and honor all you old farts instead of letting you just fade away.
.....
I wanted this thread to be a means of honoring and thanking US Veterans for the upcoming Veterans Day, November 11, 2013.  It's a national holiday celebrated in the United States but I think it has kinda gotten lost and the general public uses it as an excuse for a three-day weekend.

Not this cowboy.  I wanna do something.

Thought I'd let you fade away didn't you? 

To all those that participated in this thread, thank you.  You've answered the roll call and identified yourself as a Veteran.  Therefore, I want to make today your day!

From your responses (I didn't have much to work with), I have the following Expat-Blog members who are US Veterans that I want to honor this day:

lirelou, a.k.a. LTC Shaun Darragh, US Army (Ret.)
ancientpathos, a.k.a. "Sergeant" Ron Gann, US Army (Ret.) - not definitive on E-7,E-8, or E-9 so hence the quotations
Teacher Mark, a.k.a. John Doe 1, US Army
Good_Man, a.k.a. Mark Loeser, US Navy
Wild_1, a.k.a. Howie, US Navy
johnnywastaken, a.k.a. Jarhead Johnny, US Marines
lostvietdreamer, a.k.a. John Doe 2, US Veteran (unsure branch)
perry88, a.k.a. John Doe 3, US Veteran (unsure branch)

Additionally, these two Veterans from America's allies are also appreciated.

laidbackfreak, a.k.a. Sean, UK Army
Flip465, a,k.a. Ian Wilson, Australian Army

All of you live so far apart that it was difficult to meet up to have a cup of coffee and shake your hand (or salute you).  Therefore, I did the next best thing.  This is my virtual salute to you!
   
Gentlemen, please follow this way ---------->Click Link (it just goes to new "ceremony" thread)

Here's a salute to just some of the Vietnamese veterans who served in the First World War. The aviators when aviation was still a very new and still developing science. When it took real courage to get up into the skies. And who would not have gotten into those skies without the skills of many Vietnamese lacquer-ware craftsmen who were coating those canvass aircraft wings:

Captain Do Huu-Vi – Earned his French pilot wings in November 1911, flew in Morocco 1912-13, flew as a pilot, observer, and bombardier until killed in action on 9 July 1916.

Corporal Phan Tat-Tao – enlisted in the 1st Foreign Legion Regt in April 1915, designated for aviation, earned his French pilot wings on 15 October 1915 at Pau, flew on the Western Front. No further news except he was promoted Cavalry Sergeant, presumably as an aviator.

Machinegun Corporal Nguyen Xuan-Nha – Machinegunner in Reconnaissance Squadron 253 from November 1917 until March 1918 when he was shot down by future German Ace Konrad Brendle in a plane piloted by Sergeant Maurice Ombredanne near Verdun.

Corporal Cao Dac-Minh – Originally enlisted in what would become French Air Force in May 1915 as a mechanic, then became an observer when transferred to a squadron near the Front. After being decorated for his conduct as a bombardier, he was approved for flight training, receiving his wings in October 1915. Served in several squadrons on and away from the Front throughout 1916-17, returned to Indochina in January 1918 with his pilots license and was killed in a landing mishap in Saigon near the end of that year.

Gabriel Pallier – son of a Colonial Infantry father and a North Vietnamese mother. Received his pilots wings in 1917. Assigned to the 4th Aeronautical Squadron based at Tong, North Vietnam, in July 1931, he commanded the squadron from July 1932 until January 1934, and later commanded the 1st Squadron, 1st Fighter Group (in France?) Indochina from January 1938 until April 1940.

Albert Nguyen Van Minh – Enlisted in the French Army in 1914, and served in France. Received his Military Aeronautical Mechanics license in 1917 and his Military Aeronautical Pilots license in May 1919, after which he was sent for officer’s training at St. Cyr. After the war served in series of Civil and Military aviation positions in Indochina, to include air liaison flighte between Nha Trang and Hanoi in 1932, and in charge of the aerial photo project for Central Vietnam.

Finally: Rene Edmonde Earnst Vandendorpe, who despite his very Dutch name was born to a Vietnamese mother in Hanoi. He received his pilots license as a Flight Corporal in 1917, served in the 1st abd 2nd Aeronautical Squadrons in Indochina in the 1920s, and retired as a Lieutenant. His name reportedly surprised everyone in that he looked very Vietnamese.